3.ER -- Manyshot? !
- Thread starter CRGreathouse
- Start date
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
I don't have the ELH, so I'm going from memory... but isn't that pretty close to how Manyshot works already?
-Hyp.
-Hyp.
LuYangShih
First Post
I may just have to ban Archers in my campaign. 
Seriously, they're so much more effective than melee warriors it's sad. Interesting little line at the bottom there, about the new Ranger. Apparently they can pick combat styles.
Seriously, they're so much more effective than melee warriors it's sad. Interesting little line at the bottom there, about the new Ranger. Apparently they can pick combat styles.
CRGreathouse
Community Supporter
Tehy increased the Dex requirement, and added the sugegsted penalty to attack rolls, but it's otherwise the same as the nonepic feat from the ELH.
Do these changes weaken the feat enough to make it balanced?
Do these changes weaken the feat enough to make it balanced?
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
So which part are you speechless about?
-Hyp.
Olgar Shiverstone
Legend
CRGreathouse said:
I think so. It's -4 now for two arrows, instead of -2. You lose an additional -2 every time you add an arrow (so -10 to the attack for four arrows), plus all four are on one attack roll (so its all or nothing).
They need to put the "This feat cannot be used with Rapid Shot" line in there, though, even though the two feats are mutually exclusive.
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
The Dex requirement, of course, is rarely going to be an issue.
Very, very few level 6+ Archery specialists will have a Dex less than 17 anyway...
Interesting to note the way the 'archery combat style' ranger's Manyshot differs from the PHB ranger's Improved Two-Weapon Fighting. A Rgr1/Ftr8 with a 10 Dexterity can take ITWF, but it looks like the low-Dex-Manyshot is only available with 6 Ranger levels.
This is a good thing.
-Hyp.
Very, very few level 6+ Archery specialists will have a Dex less than 17 anyway...
Interesting to note the way the 'archery combat style' ranger's Manyshot differs from the PHB ranger's Improved Two-Weapon Fighting. A Rgr1/Ftr8 with a 10 Dexterity can take ITWF, but it looks like the low-Dex-Manyshot is only available with 6 Ranger levels.
This is a good thing.
-Hyp.
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Olgar Shiverstone
Legend
Hypersmurf said:
I'll bet that gets tweaked to, so that you need 9 Ranger levels.
Agreed: good thing. Rangers go back on my "like" list.
Elder-Basilisk
First Post
Without seeing the rest of the 3.5e changes, my guess is "no."
This would be horribly unbalanced in an unmodified 3e campaign since it would allow hasted archers to take a full attack action (with rapid shot) on their normal action and then use their haste action for a rapid shot. Archer attack bonusses are high enough that the -4 penalty isn't much although -6 is still noticable (my experience playing archers goes up to 8-9th level. Beyond that, I'm improvising). Since this is mostly a Haste issue and Haste will probably be revised removing the partial action, it most likely won't be as unbalanced in 3.5e as it would be in 3e. Also since it requires a standard action, it is incompatible with a FRA and is therefore useful only (since it's strictly inferior to and incompatible with Rapid Shot if you have BAB 6+ and a whole round available to you) when a character wants to move and shoot. Since archers tend to stay in one location and take full attack actions, it may not be as advantageous as a corresponding feat would be for melee characters.
Note that it is incompatible with 3e Rapid Shot since this requires a standard action and rapid shot requires a Full Round Attack action. It is also incompatible with 3e Shoot on the Run but not 3e Flyby Attack for more or less the same reason.
This would be horribly unbalanced in an unmodified 3e campaign since it would allow hasted archers to take a full attack action (with rapid shot) on their normal action and then use their haste action for a rapid shot. Archer attack bonusses are high enough that the -4 penalty isn't much although -6 is still noticable (my experience playing archers goes up to 8-9th level. Beyond that, I'm improvising). Since this is mostly a Haste issue and Haste will probably be revised removing the partial action, it most likely won't be as unbalanced in 3.5e as it would be in 3e. Also since it requires a standard action, it is incompatible with a FRA and is therefore useful only (since it's strictly inferior to and incompatible with Rapid Shot if you have BAB 6+ and a whole round available to you) when a character wants to move and shoot. Since archers tend to stay in one location and take full attack actions, it may not be as advantageous as a corresponding feat would be for melee characters.
Note that it is incompatible with 3e Rapid Shot since this requires a standard action and rapid shot requires a Full Round Attack action. It is also incompatible with 3e Shoot on the Run but not 3e Flyby Attack for more or less the same reason.
CRGreathouse said:
Olgar Shiverstone said:
Doesn't sound too bad...it's giving you an extra attack per every five levels or so at a fairly substantial minus in addition to your normal movement. In addition, I like that they are very clear about what sneak attack and critical damage is applied to...the first shot. No ungodly stacking of sneak attack and critical hit damage per arrow.
Of course, we'll see how this pans out in actual play!
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