3 Magic Feats: Magical Weapon, Magic Manipulation, & Cantrip Master

[jgsugden]

Being able to gain advantage or bonuses is the intent of the feat. Now, many bonuses only apply to weapon attacks anyway, so there shouldn't be too much change. Furthermore, there are spells that use attack rolls instead of saving throws already, such as Scorching Ray. Those spells are not considered OP for having an attack roll. This feat allows more spells to be cast that way and gain what limited benefits do exist. I do not think this is overpowered, but if you feel it is, maybe you could give some examples to express your position?

#1: You're bypassing Legendary Resistance, so at high levels it is a massive change for critical battles. #2: A wizard with a Belt of Giant Strength can get an attack bonus up very high and gain advantage. Toss in some bonuses from Bard's or Battlemasters and, against foes with a very solid AC, you can get that chance to apply an effect that takes an enemy out of the battle up to 99.75%. And this is something you can do over and over and over... Build a wizard or warlock character that tries to abuse this feat. It is not hard to do.

The spells that use attack rolls are generally damage spells. Damage is something we associate with attack rolls. While exceptions to the general rule do exist, you're not swimming in spells that incapacitate or nerf enemies from a battle that rely merely on an attack roll.

The save change may not make complete sense, but it isn't game-breaking.

This is not correct. If I can select the lowest save of a creature and have a good guess as to which save is the weakest, this allows me to effectively get as much as +10 penalties to enemy saves. As it is extremely powerful and, in many cases, makes no sense (strength save for Feeblemind?), I advise against it.

Giving a cantrip instead is lackluster and against the goals of the feat. I don't want every spellcaster feat to be, "Here's an ok benefit. Oh, and here's a cantrip to make it up to you."

Understood, but if the choice is between overpowered, underpowered, or only powered correctly because of a 'toss in' benefit, I believe that the choice is clear.

I think the list would quickly get too long and similarly would limit the feat's use with future cantrips.

We see the same thing. However, I see that limitation as a preventative measure to avoid abuse. You seem to see it as entirely a negative thing.

 

[ro]

Cantrip master should be balanced with magic initiate. The benefits seem greater imo.

The fact that one of the cantrips should not be damaging is not a limit, as most PCs only need one damaging cantrip anyway. The fact that it isn't limited to one spell list is also quite potent.

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I can limit it to gaining one cantrip.

 

[ro]

#1: You're bypassing Legendary Resistance, so at high levels it is a massive change for critical battles.

Hm. A clause could be added, "Your target can use an available Legendary Resistance to impose disadvantage on your attack roll."

#2: A wizard with a Belt of Giant Strength can get an attack bonus up very high and gain advantage.

How? Strength is not a casting stat and doesn't affect attack bonus for spellcasters at all. Notice that this feat is not making a weapon attack but a spell attack with an illusory magical weapon as the appearance. The illusory weapon is all for show. The only actual ability is the switch to a spell attack from a saving throw.

Toss in some bonuses from Bard's or Battlemasters and, against foes with a very solid AC, you can get that chance to apply an effect that takes an enemy out of the battle up to 99.75%. And this is something you can do over and over and over... Build a wizard or warlock character that tries to abuse this feat. It is not hard to do.

If the bonuses apply to spell attacks, as Bardic Inspiration would, then yes, this helps. But again, it already can help some great spells.

The spells that use attack rolls are generally damage spells. Damage is something we associate with attack rolls. While exceptions to the general rule do exist, you're not swimming in spells that incapacitate or nerf enemies from a battle that rely merely on an attack roll.

That's true.

This is not correct. If I can select the lowest save of a creature and have a good guess as to which save is the weakest, this allows me to effectively get as much as +10 penalties to enemy saves. As it is extremely powerful and, in many cases, makes no sense (strength save for Feeblemind?), I advise against it.

When used, it can have a big impact, but the designers thought it appropriate to give to 2nd level Lore Master wizards once per rest. They must not think it too OP at any level once per rest. The way this feat is written currently, it could eb up to three times per rest. I should change that.

Magic Manipulation
Prerequisite: The ability to cast at least one spell

You have mastered the art of modifying magic on the fly. Once per short rest you change a spell you cast in one of the following ways. Starting at level 6, you can use this ability twice, and at level 18, three times, per short rest.
- Increase your DC or attack bonus by 2.
- Change the saving throw ability. (This ability is limited to once per rest even at higher levels.)
- Change the damage types.
- Double the range (Touch spells become 10 feet, Self spells become Touch).

Understood, but if the choice is between overpowered, underpowered, or only powered correctly because of a 'toss in' benefit, I believe that the choice is clear.

I think a better choice is to create a feature for the feat of commensurate power without giving the cantrip, making the feat balanced but not boring.

We see the same thing. However, I see that limitation as a preventative measure to avoid abuse. You seem to see it as entirely a negative thing.

I get what you are saying. There are just a lot of cantrips. I'd rather work to find a wording that encompasses possible problems as best as we can.

 

[ro]

#1: You're bypassing Legendary Resistance, so at high levels it is a massive change for critical battles.

Magical Weapon
Prerequisite: The ability to cast at least one spell

When you create a magical effect that targets another creature, you may summon an illusory magical weapon. If your target is within 5 feet of you, it looks like a melee weapon; otherwise it looks like a ranged weapon. Your appearance, including items you are carrying, changes to fit this illusion, but nothing changes about your actual abilities. It is a complete sensory effect, but everyone knows it is a magical illusion. This effect lasts until the end of your turn. You gain the following benefit:

- When you cast a spell or use another racial or class feature that causes one or more creatures other than you to make a saving throw, you may instead make a spell attack roll for each target. If you hit, the results of failing the saving throw take effect; otherwise, the results of succeeding on the saving throw take effect. A natural 20 roll always hits and a natural 1 always misses, but otherwise there are no benefits or penalties for critical successes or failures. If your target could have used Legendary Resistance against your saving throw, it may use it to force you to make the roll with disadvantage, even if your roll would have had advantage otherwise.

On average, hitting with an attack roll is about as likely as hitting on an Int save and less than 5% more likely than hitting on a Dex, Con, or Wis save except at level 17 and above when it is 17% more likely on Dex, Con, and Wis. For most games then, this is a +1 benefit, though for high-level games it rises to +3. Averaged across the game, it's a +1.5 benefit. Comparing this to a +2 to your spellcasting stat, you would have gained +1 to this, but also to all related skills. I think it is comparable.

 

[flametitan]

I have some problems with Cantrip master letting you double dip on your bonus to damage. While it does at least have a clause to prevent abuse with Eldritch Blast, there's something uncomfortable with letting people stack on multiples of their best stat to damage.

 

[ro]

I have some problems with Cantrip master letting you double dip on your bonus to damage. While it does at least have a clause to prevent abuse with Eldritch Blast, there's something uncomfortable with letting people stack on multiples of their best stat to damage.

Yeah, I was thinking about that. The reason I added that was to allow it to still benefit Draconic Sorcerers, for instance. Even adding the benefit twice is less damage than multiple attacks which all get the modifier, but I could see that still being an issue. Is there a way to not step on Evokers and Sorcerers, et al, without making it too much?

 

[Satyrn]

Cantrip Master

- You learn two cantrips of your choice, one of which must not deal damage.
- You may ignore the Concentration requirement of one active cantrip.
- You may cast as a bonus action or reaction any cantrip that neither deals damage nor imposes a condition.
- Starting at 11th level you may cast twice any cantrip that neither deals damage nor imposes a condition, and limits on simultaneous effects are doubled.
- When you cast a cantrip with one damage roll, you may add your spellcasting ability modifier to that damage roll. If you already add it, you may add it a second time.
- When you cast a cantrip with a damage roll dX that does not scale with character level, the damage increases by 1dX at each of 5th, 11th, and 17th levels if its benefit is not used during the same action as Extra Attack.

If I took this feat, I think I'd be casting true strike a lot.

 

[ro]

If I took this feat, I think I'd be casting true strike a lot.

What can I do to filter out True Strike and Blade Ward from becoming too powerful?

 

[ro]

Here's an update:

Cantrip Master
Prerequisite: 4th Level and the ability to cast at least one cantrip

- You learn one cantrip of your choice, or two if neither deals damage. Choose Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma as your spellcasting ability for these cantrips.
- When you cast a cantrip with one damage roll, you may add your proficiency bonus to that damage roll.
- When you cast a non-scaling cantrip with a damage roll dX, the damage increases by 1dX at each of 5th, 11th, and 17th levels if its benefit is not used during the same action as Extra Attack.
- If you know True Strike, you may cast it as a bonus action.
- For any cantrip that does not deal damage, impose conditions, or give (dis)advantage or resistance:
-- You may ignore the Concentration requirements of one such active cantrip.
-- You may cast it as a bonus action or reaction.
-- Starting at 11th level, when you cast it, you may cast it twice, doubling limits on simultaneous effects.

 

[Satyrn]

What can I do to filter out True Strike and Blade Ward from becoming too powerful?

I can't think of anything that doesn't add more complexity than I'd prefer: Make it usable X times per rest, say, or give it a recharge mechanic,

Or don't allow it to be used on the same spell twice in a row, or maybe even only once per spell per rest.