D&D 3.x [3.PF] "Restricted Gestalt" Variants

[DammitVictor]

The Gestalt Characters variant rules were probably--don't @ me-- the most notorious and most long-lasting legacy of the 3.5 version of Unearthed Arcana. An admittedly and unabashedly high-power variant, they allowed players to combine two (or more, in some variant-variants) character classes at every character level. Great for small parties, jaded veteran players who like complex mechanics, powergamers, and compulsive weirdos like myself. Not great for people who like "low op" games, iconic character archetypes, or mechanically simple games. The later you got into 3.5 and/or PF1 class design, the less good these rules were for anyone. (Don't @ me!!)

The vanilla Gestalt variant was pretty simple: at every character level, when you'd normally pick a class to advance in, you'd pick two and combine them. By default, you could only take one Prestige Class per character level, and "multige" Prestige Classes were prohibited... but these restrictions were frequently waived/ignored by the kind of players who were attracted to the Gestalt rules in the first place.

I was always a fan. But... after years of toying around with bizarre campaign variants and other FRPGs, I've started to think about ways to use these rules to create unique campaigns.

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Fixed Progression - "Fixie" - Gestalt (nobody else calls it that)

• Standard Gestalt rules, but one or both "sides" of the progression are chosen and locked from 1st to 20th level.
• Simplest implementation and closest to "old school" multiclassing.
• Greatly expands character options without bogging down into analysis paralysis.

Tristalt

• Almost always combined with fixed progression: characters combine three classes, with two or all three "fixed" at 1st level.
• Whoooooooof. No.

Class-Limited Gestalt

• There's a short list of classes (even as small as one) that all characters must choose at each level.
• Use "occupational" classes to represent shared jobs or organizations: Fighters (and Magi/Warpriests/Warmages) for sellswords, Clerics/Paladins/Warpriests/Inquisitors for a church hiearchy, Rogues/Bards/Beguilers (etc) for a Thieves' Guild...
• Use "heritage" classes for theming: all characters have a bloodline class with different bloodlines for X-Men; all characters have a bloodline class with the same bloodline to demonstrate common origins across diverse ancestries. Works great for Oracles, too.
• Use criteria: BAB, skills, spellcasting progression, Tier, etc., campaign setting, product line...

Tier-Balanced Gestalt

• Gestalt selection is based on "class tiers": T1-2 classes can combine with Tier 5 (mostly NPC) classes, Tier 3-4 classes can combine with each other, maybe even tristalt if all your classes are 4 or 5.

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Of course, the real fun comes from mixing and matching.

 

[DammitVictor]

Big Dumb Campaign Ideas:

Whole reason I started this thread? Had a dumb idea awhile back: "No Core" D&D.

Rules are "simple":

• 3.PF. Third-party products allowed/encouraged, as long as they're 3.X or PF1 compatible, and subject to umpire's approval.
• No ancestries or base classes from the PHB or CRB allowed, including subraces, archetypes, and variants.
  • Anything with the [human] subtype is human and counts as human for all purposes. Human Paragon grants Skilled.
  • Nothing that gets "full caster" access to the full Wiz/Sor, Clr/Ora, or Druid spell lists is allowed.
  • Mechanics that are locked behind "core class" are given/made accessible to similar classes;
  • Your base classes and/or Prestige Classes for a single level can't be from the same source/series.
  • Your first two base classes and your first PrC are "free" and you get PF Favored Class Bonuses for them; NPC classes, Paragon classes, and anything else that isn't a "base class" or a "Prestige Class" don't count.

Has some interesting ramifications:

• Removing orcs as the big "humanoid menace" thrusts goblins, hobgoblins, and bugbears into the forefront; Paizo and Dreamscarred Press have a lot of material for goblinoids, in addition to the Eberron setting.
• On the WotC side... your biggest sources for new classes are Oriental Adventures and Expanded Psionics Handbook; AEG's Rokugan d20 adds a lot of support to the former and Dreamscarred Press add a lot to the latter.
• Many, many humans are now genasi/geniekin. Your best-supported 9 level spellcasters are Wu Jen and Shugenja. Paizo's elemental kineticist has amazing support from Legendary Games. Paizo has published two different versions of the Sha'ir class...
• Many, many humans are now aasimar, tiefling, or ganzi. You're probably also going to be seeing a lot more Witches and Warlocks than you usually do. Witch|Warlock is a viable class.
• Paladins and Antipaladins are banned.... as are probably the three Paladin variants (Tyranny, Liberty, Slaughter) in Unearthed Arcana. The Prestige Paladin and/or Blackguard aren't. Sohei, Inquisitor, Warpriest, Cavalier/Samurai are all great routes to get there.

Like... how much worldbuilding just happened there?

 

[Brendan Byrd]

I guess I miss read the rules.

I interpreted the Gestalt rules as a way to construct a hybrid class.
Pick two classes and merge them, levels 1-20. This becomes Gestalt1.
Pick two different classes, merge them: Gestalt2.
Gestalt1 and Gestalt2 are then subject to the multiclassing rules [edit 2] like all the core classes

Guess I need to go do some re-reading.

ETA: I constructed a curriculum for a (magic) school (5 levels) using the Gestalt rules as a guide.
Rogue/(W/S), Rogue/Fighter, & Rogue/Cleric.

 

[GreyLord]

My houserules on Gestalts...

You pick two classes and that's it. They are fixed after that. You can't mix and match.

You may choose a Prestige class if you wish, but then you only advance in the Prestige Class and not the other Gestalt Classes.

You XP doubles from the normal level. So if you need 1000 XP to go from level 1 to level 2, it's now 2000 XP.

This actually helps balance out Gestalt with other players who don't want to play Gestalt.

 

[Alzrius]

Owen K. C. Stephens has played around with the gestalt rules here and there over the years.

For instance, on his old blog, he talks about "amalgam" characters, which is basically the same thing as gestalt characters except that "All of the abilities of both classes are considered to be native to the amalgam class. This can be important for rule interactions. For example, an amalgam magus/wizard treats all their wizard spells as being magus spells when determining if they can cast spells without suffering from arcane spell failure."

Likewise, over on his Patreon, he came up with the idea of minor gestalt characters, which is where a character can only gestalt a single PC class with a single NPC class.

 

[Edgar Ironpelt]

My "Brotherhood of Rangers" game is a "restricted gestalt" one: PCs must be ranger-gestalts with only one other class. It works very well, enough so that I'd try the concept again with a different class, given the appropriate campaign idea. E.g. a "Dungeoneering in the Megadungeon" game where all the PCs are rogue-gestalts with only one other class.