3 reasons why the design team shouldn't visit ENWorld

[Aus_Snow]

I suppose the problem with customer responses on a forum is that they're self-selecting. They tend to attract people who are REALLY passionate one way or another, and the more passionate they are, the more they post.

I've heard this one a number of times, particularly on this forum, and most often from people seemingly claiming to be anything but that. Not that you're (necessarily) so claiming, just so I'm clear there. An interesting counter-claim, I think, is the example of Crothian, who - if I'm not mistaken - still has by far the highest post count here, has been here forever... and yet, is totally easygoing, broad-minded, and so forth. Well, that I'm aware of, anyhow.

I *know* with absolute certainty that there are a lot of "casual" (normal? ) players and DMs frequenting forums such as this. Yes, even this one. And on some forums I post at, they're by far the norm. "Casual" equivalents in some cases, because yeah, I don't just post at RPG/gaming forums.

Plenty of people turn up at forums via Googling (like I did, say), and kinda just decide to join, post some stuff, whatever. Plenty of others seek out forums to discuss things they're interested in, but without a grudge to bear, a bone to pick, or any similarly stressful accessories. Much as people might shoot the **** on Facebook, Twitter, or hey, IRC... (etc.)

There's quite possibly the boredom aspect to watch out for, be it on forums, or any other discussion medium. Whether it's due to mind-numbing work or school, home drudgery, or just a lack of activity, bored geeks (and other folks) will say the damnedest things sometimes. Becoming familiar with this phenomenon will likely pay off.

 

[Jon_Dahl]

I think this guy is right.
I think 99% of the people here at Enworld are nice, but internet seems to make everyone an expert. If the creators would have a real discussion in an auditorium or something like that, suddenly things would change radically. Pressing "submit reply" is easy, but when you actually use your vocal chords to express your opion, there is something that sparks in your mind and filters all the BS you are thinking.

 

[DragonLancer]

I disagree with him. I think the best thing a company can do is pay attention on forums to what their more dedicated fans want and don't want. Sure, some criticism is going to pop in there (3.x vs 4E fans for example) but these forum users are the minority but core part of your fan base. You just need a thick skin.

I wish more hobby games companies took part and paid attention on their forums and sites like ENW.

 

[Runestar]

Not sure if I am the only one, but I personally loved those little designer notes in the rules compendium book. Somehow, they made me remember that there is a human being slogging away behind the scenes and playtesting away, trying to deliver quality and balanced material into my hands every month. Sure, people invariably find some way to break the material, but at least I know what was going on in their minds.

 

[DumbPaladin]

I think this guy is right.
I think 99% of the people here at Enworld are nice, but internet seems to make everyone an expert. If the creators would have a real discussion in an auditorium or something like that, suddenly things would change radically. Pressing "submit reply" is easy, but when you actually use your vocal chords to express your opion, there is something that sparks in your mind and filters all the BS you are thinking.

I guess that's a fair point, except that a good many people would never type something online that they wouldn't say to a person's face. I certainly fall into that category.

More to the point, however: How is listening to a particular section (or subsection) of your fan base a bad idea? It is not as if you are obligated to change the way you do things based on forum users' views ...but if a game designer has his/her head is in the sand and no idea at all what's going on ... well, that designer will make a lovely Marie Antoinette someday. She had a really bad day, you know. Didn't really see it coming, till juuuust a little before.

Perhaps an even more interesting question: if reading forums is so wrong, then a couple of Paizo people -- and other creators of material -- are doing something wrong, but they keep doing it. I surmise they do it because they find it has some benefit. If it has some benefit to THEM, then how can anyone else say it's wrong?

 

[PaulofCthulhu]

Perhaps different types of forums attract different types of people and behaviour?

For some you'll get great feedback and insight, in others, not so much. Maybe it's simply an issue of scale.

The tip on having a group of close advisors who's judgement you trust is likely a good one, though - whether you also use forum feedback or not.

 

[Dungeoneer]

Reason #4: forum posters are so invested in the importance of their opinion that they will bristle at any suggestion that they should be ignored.

As someone who is involved in a lot of analysis and reporting at his job right now, I can tell you there absolutely is such a thing as useless and even downright bad information. 'All feedback is good feedback' is nonsense.

Forums tend to be an example of an environment where the noise-to-signal ratio is just too high. Of course there's good ideas there, but they are so overwhelmed by the bad ones that they're often impossible to disentangle.

Is it really helpful to read a ten page thread of people rehashing the same arguments over and over again ad nauseum? Is it really helpful to post an idea and get hundreds of yesses and nos from people whose opinion you have no context to evaluate? Is it really helpful to be constantly harangued by people who believe that their pet issue is the most important thing you could possibly spend your time on? Is it really helpful to read the frothing rage of anonymous internet trolls who say horrible things about you even though they've never met you in their life?

I submit that it is not.

This doesn't mean that you have no interaction with the community. It just means that that process is slightly more complicated than designers posting directly on the forum.

 

[carmachu]

There's alot that the poster gets wrong- STickingyour fingers in your ear and calling it ":they hate you" doesnt solve anything either. Games workshop is a master at that and it does them no good- hell they shut down their own forums years ago.

Interaction with your fan/customer base takes work and effort.


Totally disagree with author when he says :

The longer you are active, the more of your fans will turn on you, justified or not.

Tell it to both Privateer Press and Paizo. Both maintain interactions with their fan base. Quite well actually, and both havent seen the fans tuirn on them. But you have to be consistant about it.

 

[El Mahdi]

I like being able to interact with the who's who of the RPG industry here at ENWorld. Makes me feel like I'm rubbing elbows with celebrities or something.

But at the same time, I understand the sentiment expressed in that article/blog. And for the most part, I think he's right. Although I'd like to add that along with hiring a person or people to be that layer between you and the fans, make sure that person or people understand games and your products, and have actual public relations education/experience!

Too often with RPG companies, I see problems with releases and statements that could have so easily been avoided if a competent public relations person had been involved. I do realize that sometimes, people are just going to be mad no matter what, but a PR Pro can significantly mitigate this. Goodwill is worth real money.

 

[Mallus]

I don't see how getting as much consumer feedback as humanly possible is anything but a good thing.

Because some humans are terrible... at least while they're on the Internet.

(and sorting the reasonable from the terrible takes time and effort)