3 Strikers and a Controller - Tactical Advice?

[Denaes]

Well, I don't trust these numbers at the moment.

I don't want to... but I'm going to go through each of their characters and do the math and set up their attacks with the bonuses added in (this was a little slowdown) for hit and damage.

I just recall the ranger had a 20 or so before he got some +1 armor.

They're running through KotS right now, which is the main issue in that I'm not setting up the encounters. Each preset encounter pretty much starts off withing 1 rounds movement to melee.

*making* them change classes or punishing them for their classes is out. The game is about fun. If they're all shooters, then it's up to the GM to make a game where that works. Maybe someone will decide to change classes as they're also hurt up by not having a cleric/paladin to heal.

Maybe I'll switch the wizard (who was my PC in the game before I took over GMing it) to a cleric/palladin... I don't even want to run a GMPC, but 3 players makes it slightly tough to run KotS without some heavy mods... not that all shooters makes it slightly tough without some modding

Thanks for the advice. I'll keep up on the thread and check out the PCs when I get home.

 

[MarkB]

*making* them change classes or punishing them for their classes is out. The game is about fun.

I wouldn't make them change classes, but discussing it with a view towards persuading them to is certainly a good idea. Once they have a more balanced party, the game will be a lot easier to make fun for them and you.

 

[Nifft]

Maybe I'll switch the wizard (who was my PC in the game before I took over GMing it) to a cleric/palladin... I don't even want to run a GMPC, but 3 players makes it slightly tough to run KotS without some heavy mods... not that all shooters makes it slightly tough without some modding

Oh, well that's actually easier to work with: drop the DMPC. Without the Wizard, they're suddenly three sneaky Strikers. They should be just fine, using stealth and deception to get around foes they can't power through.

Encourage the Warlock to gain Stealth training somehow. Bang, they're viable.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Denaes]

Oh, and I just wanted to point out that I *do* have experience GMing and *don't* rely on the system to provide balance for me.

I try to run each system as is to the best of my skills (or it's capabilities) while I'm learning it and then adjust things for the game I end up running

like for 3.x I rarely used the CR system and even ran some lone wolf games (single players).

I even ran Palladium RPGs (Rifts, Nightspawn, Fantasy) for some extended periods.

So I don't doubt I can jigger things to make it work out for the party. I'm still unclear with what actual tools I have within the system as I'm pretty new to 4e.

But I'm seeing that this party just may not be able to run in anything a *standard* group could due to their exaggerated strengths and weaknesses.

 

[Nifft]

So I don't doubt I can jigger things to make it work out for the party. I'm still unclear with what actual tools I have within the system as I'm pretty new to 4e.

But I'm seeing that this party just may not be able to run in anything a *standard* group could due to their exaggerated strengths and weaknesses.

Well, if you dump the DMPC and just go with the party of 3 Strikers, you can do some concrete things: for example, use few (if any) Minions, since Minions are bad for Strikers and good for Controllers.

Use waves of attackers instead of groups. This will showcase the Striker's high damage potential while allowing the Rogue to not get mobbed.

Finally, allow them to leverage the small size of their group and sneak around certain challenges -- or sneak into a superior position, where they can do damage for a couple of rounds before their foes are able to close in on them.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Denaes]

I wouldn't make them change classes, but discussing it with a view towards persuading them to is certainly a good idea. Once they have a more balanced party, the game will be a lot easier to make fun for them and you.

The players are all fairly new and viewing things as what they want to do, not how they should suffer with something they don't want in the hopes that it will be more fun than playing something they do want to play.

I wasn't the GM at the time, but I did bring it up before we chose classes. I didn't even realize we were 3 strikers and a Controller until I started to GM.

oh, and the Warlock chose a Fey Pact, so movement might not be a huge issue with her at some times, but without me looking at her at wills, she keeps mentioning her main attack only has a range of 6, which is conflicting with her need to stay away from the front line. 6 isn't bad when you have a defender or two. 6 isn't good when you're wearing cloth and there isn't anyone between you and the enemy and everyone elses ranged attacks are all 10/20.

 

[vazanar]

So I don't doubt I can jigger things to make it work out for the party. I'm still unclear with what actual tools I have within the system as I'm pretty new to 4e.

But I'm seeing that this party just may not be able to run in anything a *standard* group could due to their exaggerated strengths and weaknesses.

I think your right, this group cant do the standard encounter. If the game is balanced for 4 roles to be filled, missing one won't make or break it. However, taking 2 of the 4 balancing parts of the equation out, means the whole encounter design needs heavy mods.

Right now my group is going thru KotS without a controller. We have a warlord, paladin, fighter, and rogue. No real problems (the dragonbreath has helped). I don't think it would work if the warlord became a defender.

 

[Nifft]

oh, and the Warlock chose a Fey Pact, so movement might not be a huge issue with her at some times, but without me looking at her at wills, she keeps mentioning her main attack only has a range of 6, which is conflicting with her need to stay away from the front line.

All Warlock at-wills have a range of 10. All of them.

-- N

 

[DFK!]

This seems odd to me, as so far in our game it seems like we should just have a party of 4 strikers and 1 leader... everything takes absurdly long to kill. Strikers would allow us to trounce people from round to round, the leader keeps the strikers standing.

YMMV

 

[DracoSuave]

1)

If you're going to GMPC with a group of three strikers, to make things balanced, a wizard is a bad idea.

Fail.

2)

I don't understand how a Ranger can have such a huge AC at level 3.

Even with Dex 20, and two weapon defense, you're looking at:

11 + 3 (Hide armor) + 1 (enhancement) + 5 (Dexterity) + 1 (TWD)

= 21.

Fail.

3)

KotS is a dungeon designed to start you at level 1 and has challenges that are geared accordingly. 500XP on average. Level 3 challenges for a 3 man group should be 450XP, so you shouldn't need to adjust much to keep things fair.

Fail.

4)

Needs more Stealth, as others have said.

5)

If they're a bunch of glass cannons and they didn't take those handy defensive Utility abilities that let them shrug off consequential hits, they deserve to take those hits.

Fail.

6)

SERIOUSLY.

They should use their stealth to hide behind things. Rogue doesn't need to flank and get up close if he's using hiding to gain his combat advantage. Warlocks just need to keep moving, so he should be fine if he takes Skill Training: Stealth.

The Ranger should have gone archery with this group, so they could adopt a run and gun style.

Your players made their characters in three seperate vacuums in a game designed around designing a group with synergy towards each other.

Fail.

7) Warlocks can wear Leather. Your rogue can wear Leather which gives them no penalties whatsoever.

Fail.

8) Seriously, did you discuss your characters -at all- which each other before you got together? Make adjustments to account for -blaring weaknesses- in the team? Have the feylock go star pact so he can throw in some kiting and forced bamf? Have the ranger go archery so he could kite with the team? Have the rogue go Artful Dodger so he could take advantage of Bluff and mobility that your team -desperately needs-?

Fail.

9) When you were suckered into DMing, did you not look at this group and say 'Seriously guys, what the hell, what is your combat stategy -as a team-?'

Fail.

10) More importantly, why didn't you do this as a player?

Fail.


What you -need- to do is say 'Look guys, one of you needs to be either a defender or a leader, cause after the first round of combat is over, without tricks, you guys are screwed.'