3 weeks till new Who!

[Guest 85555]

I think the point is more that when the show says something can't ever happen, and then goes and contradicts itself shortly thereafter, then the writers have just cheapened the drama of the situation. 2.

But as people have been pointing out, it didnt do that. They didnt say it couldnt happen, just that it was dangerous because it could destroy the tardis inside a short period of time. The doctor didnt want to risk it, but Clara was willing to do so.

If others don't buy the episode or hate the new episodes that is no skin off my back. I dont get why some people are so insistent others must agree the show is bad now or the writing is terrible (personally I think the writing of this episode was particularly good).

 

[Bagpuss]

I am saddened by the drastic down-turn in the quality of writing for NuWho since Moffat took over. This has been gone over before. In my opinion, Moffat has pulled a Lucas. I sincerely hope that at some point the writing and general stories will improve to where it was during series 3. Even series 2.

I don't put it down to Moffat I put it down to going to 45 minutes, so everything has to be rushed to fit. I also don't think there has been a drastic down-turn, just some things needed a bit more polish and explanation, which with an extra 15 minutes they could have had.

 

[Morrus]

I don't put it down to Moffat I put it down to going to 45 minutes, so everything has to be rushed to fit. I also don't think there has been a drastic down-turn, just some things needed a bit more polish and explanation, which with an extra 15 minutes they could have had.

Sometimes I hate the quote function!

 

[Bagpuss]

Why's that?

 

[Nellisir]

Meanwhile, throughout both these sequences, you have the psychic doing something. What, exactly? Nothing of relevance, apparently. Which might be acceptable the first time, but then the Doctor has her do it again despite it having no apparent impact on anything. More bad writing. (Even if we ignore the fact that the TARDIS was there for longer than 10 seconds.)

Were we watching the same episode? The psychic opened the portal, but couldn't keep it open long enough to get the time-traveller AND the Doctor out. Thus the TARDIS and Clara to the rescue. Second time around, the psychic opened the portal to drop the Doctor in and give him time to locate the monster, then the TARDIS swooped in to pick them up. Admittedly the TARDIS might've been unnecessary the second time, but at least they knew it would work that time.

So if opening the portal twice (or three times, I think), dropping the Doctor through twice, and bringing the time-traveller back is "nothing of relevance", then I guess we were watching different episodes..

 

[lin_fusan]

I have to admit that I was confused by the sequence in question. The ending was very compressed with a lot of visual and textual information, and I heard in paraphrase, "This terrible thing will happen if we enter the pocket dimension."

And then Clara entered the pocket dimension and the terrible thing did not happen. To have to back up and take apart the dialogue to figure out what the characters meant means that somewhere I did not get the information to understand what the heck was going on.

I loved every other part of the episode up to rescue. After that, there were just too many conceptual twists crammed together for me to grok easily.

 

[Morrus]

I have to admit that I was confused by the sequence in question. The ending was very compressed with a lot of visual and textual information, and I heard in paraphrase, "This terrible thing will happen if we enter the pocket dimension."

And then Clara entered the pocket dimension and the terrible thing did not happen. To have to back up and take apart the dialogue to figure out what the characters meant means that somewhere I did not get the information to understand what the heck was going on.

The only explanation I can think of is that it's maybe a dialect thing - you're in the US? Maybe you guys found it a bit harder to catch what they were saying (they do speak fast), but it was pretty clear to me. It was very explicit that it was a "we can go in for only a few seconds" thing, and very explicity not a "we can't go in at all" thing.

 

[Guest 85555]

The only explanation I can think of is that it's maybe a dialect thing - you're in the US? Maybe you guys found it a bit harder to catch what they were saying (they do speak fast), but it was pretty clear to me. It was very explicit that it was a "we can go in for only a few seconds" thing, and very explicity not a "we can't go in at all" thing.

I am from the US, and while I do sometimes find it difficult to catch certain phrases or understand some slang terms (snog box went over my head), this one was pretty clear to me on the first viewing. Didn't cause any confusion for me at all.

 

[sabrinathecat]

I am not insisting that everyone agree with me. I am practicing one of the fundamental traditions of the culture of the country in which I reside: Disagreeing. I am not going along with the crowd.
Additionally, my comment on "can't happen" was a more broad stroke for the show as a whole, not the specific episode.
If the story needs more time, make it a 2-parter. If you do not have enough story for the whole episode, take it away, and bring it back when you do, rather than stuffing it with padding.
Moffat is in charge. He wrote 6 of the best stories in the first 4 series. Arguably 2 of the best Who stories period. He is capable of better than he is currently delivering. That is what I would like to see.

 

[Mallus]

"Why can't we do X to solve the problem?"
"We can't do X because Y will happen."

You left out "... Y will happen if the TARDIS stays in the pocket universe too long".

It's an important detail. You shouldn't leave it out.

You can't just turn around five minutes later, do X, and have the only justification be "Clara insulted the TARDIS"

Clara insulting the TARDIS had nothing to do with it. That's not offered as a justification for anything.

Meanwhile, throughout both these sequences, you have the psychic doing something. What, exactly? Nothing of relevance, apparently.

She opens a portal to the pocket universe. She does this 3 times during the episode (see below, I've labelled them P1, P2, and P3).

(Even if we ignore the fact that the TARDIS was there for longer than 10 seconds.)

Yes, we should ignore that. If your approach to film/television criticism involves the use of a stopwatch -- well, you should find another approach.

Okay, let's assume that Clara just didn't know that the psychic was going to pull it together so the second rescue effort was superfluous.

We don't need to assume that. Because that's exactly what happens in the episode. The sequence of events was this:

Emma Grayling opens a portal (P1) to the pocket universe --> the Doctor goes through --> Doctor finds the Hila Tukurian and sends her back --> Grayling can't maintain the portal --> portal closes --> the Doctor is trapped.

Cut back to the mansion, where Palmer comforts Grayling, saying basically, "you've done enough, we rescued one" and Clara saying "we have to rescue the Doctor". At this point Clara runs off -- back to the TARDIS. Without explaining what she intends to do.

Next we see two simultaneous rescue attempts -- each without the other knowing. Clara in the TARDIS (T1) and Grayling, after getting her... act... together, re-opening the portal (P2). Clara's attempt succeeds.

But since we already know that the psychic actually can pull people out of the pocket dimension, why put the TARDIS at risk a second time? It doesn't make any sense within the rules of the universe as they've established them in the episode.

We know Grayling can open a portal. Also that doing so is extremely stressful/difficult/she can't do it for long.

OK, so the coda/final scenes: the Doctor realizes there are two "monsters", one in the mansion and one trapped in pocket universe. He asks Grayling for a "favor", ie opening a portal (P3).

The Doctor goes through --> finds the other "monster" --> the TARDIS enters the pocket universe (T2) --> picks up the Doctor + monster.

The episode doesn't spell out why the Doctor asked Grayling to open the final portal (P3), but the answer should be obvious: to minimize the amount of time the TARDIS spends in the pocket universe, ie just to pick up, not drop off/pick up. It's not bad writing. It's the writer trusting the audience (or at least trusting the audience isn't out to get him). In fact, it's a very "gamer" solution. "Hey, can't we just have the psychic NPC open the portal? That'll save the TARDIS some exposure-to-the-pocket-universe time".

(whew... I feel like I just close captioned the episode for the interpretively-impaired).

I'm honestly amazed at the number of people trying to defend a blatant deus ex technobabble here.

The funny thing is there's no technobabble involved in the resolution. None. No adjusting the chroniton-phase modulation or even reversing the polarity of the neutron flow. They simply follow the "rules" established during the episode. Hell, there's barely a line of dialog during final scene, let alone any technobabble.

And because this post hasn't gone on long enough: any critique of the writing in Hide that doesn't favorably mention the real heart of the episode --ie, where it stops being a period ghost story and becomes a brief history of the Earth's whole history-- and the lovely, affecting lines given to Clara (and the Doctor's fumbling response) is lacking in the worthwhile criticism department!