3 weeks till new Who!

[MerricB]

The problem is that the Doctor makes a really big effort to get them to come along with him... but then he never actually needs them. And it's not just that it turns out that they're (worse than) useless, it's that the Doctor never even attempts to make use of them.

They are used twice (positively):
* The Doctor uses their hand-scanner to pull Clara out of the echo of the console room
* They knock the Time Zombies off the bridge to let Clara and the Doctor escape - although they're then caught themselves.

Agreed. Unfortunately, that's mostly a commentary on how bad this season has been.

Given I really enjoyed Hide and The Bells of St John, that's an unwarranted statement.

This episode gave us great moments with the Doctor and Clara, explored the TARDIS, and gave more than one or two key plot points that will probably become very important later. (At least, I hope they will. If they don't, I'll be disappointed then). However, given that the Brothers have a faint recollection of what happened, and the Doctor probably more than that... and given the title of the final episode this season, what Clara saw in the library is good foreshadowing.

 

[JustinAlexander]

They are used twice (positively):
* The Doctor uses their hand-scanner to pull Clara out of the echo of the console room
* They knock the Time Zombies off the bridge to let Clara and the Doctor escape - although they're then caught themselves.

Neither of which explains why the Doctor wanted their help in the first place. He wastes a considerable amount of time forcing them to help, but once he achieves that it turns out that all he wants them to do is follow along behind him.

Discussing the marginal assistance they provided doesn't actually fix the weak writing at the beginning of the episode if the Doctor had no way of anticipating that it would happen. And it's an even weaker argument when the problems they're "solving" are actually being created by their presence. (For example, it's a good thing that the "android" knocked the time zombie future version of himself off the balcony! If he hadn't been there then... oh wait. Then there wouldn't be a time zombie in first place.)

Given I really enjoyed Hide and The Bells of St John, that's an unwarranted statement.

Yes, yes. My opinion is wrong because you have a different opinion. Very deep insight you've provided there.

So is it that you aren't capable of recognizing poor writing or is it that you just don't care?

Mod Note: And, that's enough of that. If you cannot stop short of personal insults, you should just stop. ~Umbran

 

[Bagpuss]

just who exactly wrote "The History of the Time War" that Clara found in the Doctor's library?

The TARDIS could have written it for all we know, it can manipulate the inside in virtually anyway possible.

 

[Bagpuss]

Neither of which explains why the Doctor wanted their help in the first place.

He doesn't want their help. He wants/needs an audience and with Clara missing they were the next best thing. Having a companion someone to share the experience and see how amazing he is, is a vital part of the Doctor's psyche, he doesn't work well alone, and this has been established multiple times in the series.

Also the Doctor doesn't know how much use they will be before he goes in there, better to have help you don't need, than to need help and not have it.

__________________________________

I though the voices Bram van Baalen overhears in the console room being from the very first episode where Susan explains the meaning of TARDIS was a nice touch and again fits with the theme of family.

Bit disappointed the umbrella Clara picked up wasn't McCoy's question mark one.

 

[Umbran]

Folks,

Please continue the conversation as if JustinAlexander isn't here for a few days.

 

[Mallus]

Instead, I thought that his main motivations were (a) you've created this problem, now fix it, and (b) let's keep an eye on you so you don't muck things up more!

Yeah, I can see that. I'm not sure where my impression came from -- it was a gut-criticism, not an objective one (hah!).

It might be just an artifact of how compressed the storytelling was. The Doctor needs the Salvage Brothers help at first because of the fuel leak, but that's solved immediately (I think). Then he lies to them to keep them on-board, even though their sketchy magno-grab users. That part felt off to me. As far as the Doctor knew, they were no longer in a race against the clock.

Or it might be I'm unfairly comparing this episode to "Hide" (which I thought was excellent). "Hide" opens up without explaining why the Doctor and Clara arrive at the house. The answer, of course, is to have and adventure, and by not offering a reason it seems like a clever piece of writing, acknowledging the perfunctory artificiality of most episodes set-ups. But halfway through it's revealed the Doctor has a very good reason for going to the mansion -- he just didn't inform Clara. Great stuff, in my book. Playing the genre-savvy members of the audience like a violin.

I kept expecting there to be another reason for the Doctor dragging the Salvage Brothers along...

Particularly enjoyed the Doctor in full-on serious mode when threatening the brothers.

That was great. Reminded me the whimsical threatening bullying of Gene Wilder's Willy Wonka -- I mean that as the highest of praise.

I'm enjoying the current half-season so far. To my mind, the only really weak --ie, uninteresting-- episode is "Cold War". "The Bells of St. Johns" and "Hide" have been particularly strong.

 

[Herschel]

He doesn't want their help. He wants/needs an audience and with Clara missing they were the next best thing. Having a companion someone to share the experience and see how amazing he is, is a vital part of the Doctor's psyche, he doesn't work well alone, and this has been established multiple times in the series.

Also the Doctor doesn't know how much use they will be before he goes in there, better to have help you don't need, than to need help and not have it.

__________________________________
Bit disappointed the umbrella Clara picked up wasn't McCoy's question mark one.

I immediately equated the umbrella with McCoy, not actually registering it wasn't the question mark one.

Just before the glimpse of the pool there was also an observatory shot which my mind immediately went to "How did he get the telescope from the Torchwood Estate?", probably in no small part due to what appeared to be a crescent moon near what would be the base.

As to the former point, I also think (as has been established) the Doctor wants to show people a 'better way to live.' as Rose emphatically pointed out in "The Parting of Ways". He figured out Tricky was a human right away and confirmed when discussing respirators/suits.

 

[MerricB]

Yeah, I can see that. I'm not sure where my impression came from -- it was a gut-criticism, not an objective one (hah!).

It might be just an artifact of how compressed the storytelling was. The Doctor needs the Salvage Brothers help at first because of the fuel leak, but that's solved immediately (I think). Then he lies to them to keep them on-board, even though their sketchy magno-grab users. That part felt off to me. As far as the Doctor knew, they were no longer in a race against the clock.

Although there wasn't a race against the clock, I did get the impression that being lost in the damaged TARDIS could be quite dangerous, so the longer Clara was on her own the worse it would be. And this Doctor has hidden motivations (much like McCoy), so I'm quite happy when he doesn't spell everything out.

Or it might be I'm unfairly comparing this episode to "Hide" (which I thought was excellent). "Hide" opens up without explaining why the Doctor and Clara arrive at the house. The answer, of course, is to have and adventure, and by not offering a reason it seems like a clever piece of writing, acknowledging the perfunctory artificiality of most episodes set-ups. But halfway through it's revealed the Doctor has a very good reason for going to the mansion -- he just didn't inform Clara. Great stuff, in my book. Playing the genre-savvy members of the audience like a violin.

Very seventh Doctor! Hide was great - the only thing I didn't like was the revelation about the creature's motivations at the end, but I can understand why that was there.

That was great. Reminded me the whimsical threatening bullying of Gene Wilder's Willy Wonka -- I mean that as the highest of praise.

Understand that entirely.

I'm enjoying the current half-season so far. To my mind, the only really weak --ie, uninteresting-- episode is "Cold War". "The Bells of St. Johns" and "Hide" have been particularly strong.

I was in full fan-boy mode during Cold War, which probably shows how much I'm steeped in Doctor Who lore. Though I've never seen the Ice Warriors, reading the novelization several times when growing up made me a fan. (And I've seen the Seeds of Death and the two Peladon tales several times). I'm very much looking forward to the release of the surviving Ice Warriors episodes in the near future. And the Tenth Planet...

I thought it odd that my biggest problem with the "Russian" sailors was that they didn't have Scottish accents? Damn you, Sean Connery!

I found the ending of Cold War odd - my interpretation is that the Doctor and Clara both fail to protect everyone, and they only survive due to the Grand Marshall being wrong about his people not coming. However, it doesn't quite play out that way and I'm not quite sure if it's a failure of the writing or the directing.

Cheers!

 

[Herschel]

Supposedly in "The Name of the Doctor" there will be a "post-library" River appearance. Maybe Charlotte Abigail Lux will have something to do with Clara. I suppose it's possible that the Doctor loses Clara again or some such and River and CAL create a "respawning" Clara to try and bolster him as he did them. Maybe Clara gets saved to the core or some such. But then why wouldn't River be the re-spawn? And making the Clara re-spawn River wouldn't make sense. Weird, but certainly possible I suppose.

Also, according to a BBC release, David tennant will be the only previous Doctor appearing in teh 50th anniversary special, leading to speculation he's the human version with Rose from the parallel universe. Christopher Eccleston was in talks with Moffat early on but declined to be involved. I'm not sure how much of teh story changed at that point but I would have liked to see McGann don his frock coat once more.

 

[MerricB]

The Crimson Horror was a fun episode - although I'm now really wanting to see stories told over two episodes again. A lot of the episodes could benefit from having more space to tell the tale in.

Cheers!