D&D 4E 3d6 and 4E Character Generation

[phil500]

the reason save or die effects have been reduced dramatically or removed altogether is that one single roll should not determine so much of a characters fate.

same with 3d6, IMO

 

[mattfs5]

The problem is the balance point for the game won't necessarily match up well with the bell curve for 3d6. if the game has largely been balanced and tested for 28 or 30 point buy, if you're party ends up on the statistical average, you'll likely eat them alive if you don't tone everything down. That often doesn't end up as a fun game. Neither, IMO, does watching the one guy who did break out of the statistical average dominate the game.

Agree totally, which is why I made the comment that the rules' expectations for ability scores need to mesh with the rolling method used. If the edition's classes, feats, or PrCs frequently require scores of 15 or 16 and the DM has players roll 3d6-in-order, that DM's gonna have a lot of sad pandas at his gaming table.

In terms of balancing against ELs or CRs or whatnot, I would expect a good DM to adjust appropriately for the party's relative power level in terms of wealth, ability scores, and other factors. Or, at least, give the PCs a solid indication when they're clearly outmatched and it's time to run!

 

[Nytmare]

Can anyone explain to me where the straight 3d6 (in order or not) method came from? Because I'm looking at my 1979 AD&D DM's Guide, and the methods it lists are
a) 4d6 drop lowest, arrange as desired
b) Roll 3d6 12 times, and keep the 6 highest.
c) Roll 3d6 6 times, for each ability score in order.
d) Roll 3d6 for 6 scores 12 times total, then choose the set of six you like the most.
In fact, it explicitly says NOT to use 3d6 in order. Was this just an evil DM invention?

Huh. I can't find my old basic set red book, but the first I can remember ever seeing a method other than "roll 3d6 straight down" was the AD&D Player's Handbook, and even there they were listed as "aternative methods" that everyone I gamed with considered cheatery of the highest order. They were:

3d6 twice for each attribute, keeping the highest
3d6 six times, and then put them wherever you want
3d6 twelve times, take the best six and put them wherever you want
4d6, drop the lowest, put them wherever you want
7d6, every stat starts at 8, add individual dice to your stats, you can not go above 18

It's funny because we all turned our noses up at these "cheesy, power gamer" methods, but every game I played in had it's own, perfectly acceptable way to generate stats, that were just as, if not more "cheesy". One of my favorite methods was from my friend Jason's game:

3d6 straight down, make all ones, sixes, and all twos, fives.

 

[RPG_Tweaker]

For AD&D: Roll 3d6, all ones and twos are counted as threes (min stat 9). Arrange.

For 3E: I tried 4d6-low, Point Buy (28p & 30p), and a variant—roll two abilities at (3d6-low) + 6, and four at 4d6-low. Arrange.


I've been considering, for a mini-campaign, a wildly random generation method:

Arrange base number to ability, then roll variable.
14 + 1d4
12 + 1d6
12 + 1d6
10 + 1d8
10 + 1d8
8 + 1d10

 

[RPG_Tweaker]

*double-post*

 

[Dragonblade]

Back in my old school AD&D days, I played in too many games where random rolling screwed me, while some other guy got to play with 4 18s just because the dice favored him. Eff that.

No element of character creation should ever be random, IMO. All the players should start the game on equal footing and should be able to make the character they envision, not the character they get stuck with because they were unlucky with the dice.

 

[ZwergWade]

Our group tried a different approach:
Let each player roll [insert your favorite method here], pool everything and let the players decide which result they like (even using one result for multiple players).

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

Can anyone explain to me where the straight 3d6 (in order or not) method came from?

Sure. From the Original D&D set, Men & Magic:

Prior to the character selection by players it is necessary for the referee to roll three six-sided dice in order to rate each as to various abilities, and thus aid them in selecting a role. Categories of ability are: Strength, Intelligence, Wisdom, Constitution, Dexterity, and Charisma.

Note that, BTB, OD&D says the referee/DM rolls the PC's stats. I, being a very generous referee, allow my players to do that.

(Also note that in OD&D, stats and bonuses aren't as large a factor as in later editions.)

Edit: Just saw that Lacyon had already linked to that musing on bonuses...

 

[Belgarath]

I'm very intrigued by the method: roll 21d6. Make six groups of three, and arrange as desired. But my preferred method is:3d6 in order, with one additional roll for swapping.

I kind of like that way of doing it too. It can run some pretty interesting characters that dont seem to be made if you allow a point buy. I mean, not many people will have their fighter have a high charisma if they are given the choice. You can only stand so many wizards with an 8 strength

 

[Harshax]

I kind of like that way of doing it too. It can run some pretty interesting characters that dont seem to be made if you allow a point buy. I mean, not many people will have their fighter have a high charisma if they are given the choice. You can only stand so many wizards with an 8 strength

And that's exactly why I do it that way. I want to see strange combinations, players trying different roles, etc.

Granted I've had one those player types, what Robin Law's definition of the player that only ever wants to play the say character over and over. For their sake we (my players and I) do things differently.