3d6 instead of d20

[Jinete]

Just had a call from my DM, he's thinking of implementing the 3d6 instead of d20 variant in our upcoming Red Hand of Doom campaign so he asked for my opinion on the matter and I thought I'd ask the boards for help.

I'm aware that it takes away some of the randomness from the game, e.g. crits will happen about 10 times less often. Has anybody actually played with this variant? Opinions?

We were also discussing using 2d10 instead of d20, does anybody have any experience with that?

 

[Cor_Malek]

Dobar dan!

I don't get it, why would you do that? d20 makes it extremely easy to calculate probablity of events, as 1 "point" = 5% On top of that, you don't need to add any numbers - it's what's on the dice.
Is it to have a minimal 3, or 2 as outcome of any roll? Just substitute any rolled "1" for 3 or 2 (depending on whether you want the 2d10 or 3d6 effect) and call it a day.

I think I'm missing something here though. What are the "pro's" of 3d6/2d10 system?

 

[Theroc]

If I understand correctly, those will also remove the automatic miss chance, unless three ones=critical miss, or with 2d10 snake eyes being automatic miss.

 

[HoboGod]

3d6 a sound variant, but I lean toward only using it with skill checks. If you use it for combat, those who have high enough AC become nearly unstoppable and beating a low AC, such as most touch, becomes laughably easy. Scorching Rays and Eldritch Blasts suddenly start becoming far more deadly than before.

I never tried 2d10, it might work better, but it's still along the same lines.

 

[Cor_Malek]

If I understand correctly, those will also remove the automatic miss chance, unless three ones=critical miss, or with 2d10 snake eyes being automatic miss.

Sceptical tone: does it really work like that...?

<scribbles and counts>

Huh. It actually does, 1% chance in case of 2d10 instead of 5% - neat! With 3d6 it's even lower.

The thing is: what you're essentially doing is making it easier to your paper characters (lower chance of fumble) by making it harder for yourselves. I mean - yeah, it seems like not a big deal - "read two numbers, add" - instead of "read a number". Or - "count dots on d6's, add the three numbers"... But it's the kind of thing that adds up.
It's noticeably smoother if you add instead of subtracting to keep track of lost HP - and it's in theory even less significant change.

IMO the 4% less chance of critical fumble of paper soldiers is not worth your time. Besides, that means lower chance of fumble for your opponents, so it doesn't actually make anything easier. Just slightly more time consuming.

 

[HoboGod]

Dobar dan!

I don't get it, why would you do that? d20 makes it extremely easy to calculate probablity of events, as 1 "point" = 5% On top of that, you don't need to add any numbers - it's what's on the dice.
Is it to have a minimal 3, or 2 as outcome of any roll? Just substitute any rolled "1" for 3 or 2 (depending on whether you want the 2d10 or 3d6 effect) and call it a day.

I think I'm missing something here though. What are the "pro's" of 3d6/2d10 system?

1d20 is a line graph, every number is equally likely to occur. 3d6 is a bell curve graph, it's more likely to get numbers in the middle like 10 and 11 than numbers further from the middle. The pros of using such a system is that epic failure and epic success become way more rare than the typically 5% of the time, which amounts to several times a night.

 

[Cor_Malek]

1d20 is a line graph, every number is equally likely to occur. 3d6 is a bell curve graph, it's more likely to get numbers in the middle like 10 and 11 than numbers further from the middle. The pros of using such a system is that epic failure and epic success become way more rare than the typically 5% of the time, which amounts to several times a night.

3d6 a sound variant, but I lean toward only using it with skill checks. If you use it for combat, those who have high enough AC become nearly unstoppable and beating a low AC, such as most touch, becomes laughably easy. Scorching Rays and Eldritch Blasts suddenly start becoming far more deadly than before.

I never tried 2d10, it might work better, but it's still along the same lines.

Yay, science!
I'm with HoboGod then - homeless.

More to the point, I definitely see a lot of merit with this method when applying to skill checks - it takes away a lot of silly stuff - like fumbling because of low rolls when you have a lot of ranks in given skill, and then someone scoring higher in arcana than the wizard did because of rolling a 20. Sometimes fun, not so much with the skillchecks.
And it's not like anyone rolls enough skill checks to significantly slow down gameplay, no matter how many dices to count - so 3d6 sounds like a better idea, at least when it comes to skill checks - it takes care of the problem more efficiently, and the higher time-cost than with 2d10 is less relevant anyhow.


I think I'm going to apply this to my games as well. Yay EnWorld! Thanks for explanations!
I Hvala za ideju ;-)

 

[Jinete]

3d6 a sound variant, but I lean toward only using it with skill checks. If you use it for combat, those who have high enough AC become nearly unstoppable and beating a low AC, such as most touch, becomes laughably easy.

I haven't thought of that, I'll be sure to warn my DM so we don't get TPK-d by some high AC monster

I Hvala za ideju ;-)

Nema problema

 

[HoboGod]

it takes away a lot of silly stuff - like fumbling because of low rolls when you have a lot of ranks in given skill, and then someone scoring higher in arcana than the wizard did because of rolling a 20.

Oh god I hate that. The wizard with 10 ranks in knowledge arcana and +3 Intelligence rolls a 2, but doesn't make the DC 17 knowledge check. The barbarian, who for some god unknown reason put a cross-class rank in knowledge arcana and has a -1 Intelligence rolls an 19. I have to tell the party that Ladius, the eccentric genius who refers to himself in the third person because he's a narcissist, is completely stumped, but Thuk, the moronic oaf who refers to himself in third person because he's never learned pronouns, has immediately determined that a random scroll contains the spell dimensional anchor. Seriously?

 

[Slife]

Oh god I hate that. The wizard with 10 ranks in knowledge arcana and +3 Intelligence rolls a 2, but doesn't make the DC 17 knowledge check. The barbarian, who for some god unknown reason put a cross-class rank in knowledge arcana and has a -1 Intelligence rolls an 19. I have to tell the party that Ladius, the eccentric genius who refers to himself in the third person because he's a narcissist, is completely stumped, but Thuk, the moronic oaf who refers to himself in third person because he's never learned pronouns, has immediately determined that a random scroll contains the spell dimensional anchor. Seriously?

Heat of the moment - Ladius had it on the tip of his tongue but got distracted. If he'd been collected (IE: taken 10), there's no way he could have missed that.