3E art and age

[Coriantis]

3e art and especially layout is waaaaaaay better than 2e's !! In fact I didn't wanna play ad&d which looked really ugly. Now 3e had that magic touch!

 

[Nightstorm]

thanks for the link to the Jeff Dee site. I had no idea he was so hot and still so young-yummm.

 

[Buttercup]

Now you can no longer express your bourgeois disapproval of body mods by claiming health or social class reasons, so the outraged are falling back on the "you'll end up like disco music!" argument.

So are you suggesting that anyone who doesn't have the same taste as you is bourgois? That's not very nice, is it?

The fact is, visible tattoos, piercings and other body mods are going to cause a person problems in some walks of life. If you are in an artistic field, or to a lesser extent IT, it's no problem. But if you show up for a job interview at a big-shot law firm, at a bank, in a hospital (in a position that deals w/ patients) or at many other conservative companies, they will show you the door. I'm not making a value judgement by saying this, just stating the facts as I know them.

But I'm hijacking the thread, aren't I? Sorry.

To get back to the discussion, I think WotC was trying to do several things with the 3E art. They were trying to appeal to a new generation (hence the tatts n' piercings), and they were trying not to offend women (hence no more Elmore-esque chainmail bikinis). I think that was a sound business decision, but I'm sure they also knew they wouldn't be able to please everybody.

 

[JeffB]

Now personally I could care less, but I see people here complaining about Elmore and whomever else for their "boobage"...

Has anyone see the 3E PHB? How about the female race pictures on page 13? What about Ember? pg 229? (I assume that's Mialee)

And take a look at Lockwoods work in the FRCS book..the elven women? the Symbul? Storm Silverhand? Sune in the F&P book? I'm sure I could find more given the time.

3E might not have the amount of "boobage" that prior editions did, and it might not hit the covers like Elmore's work did, but it's certainly there.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

To get back to the discussion, I think WotC was trying to do several things with the 3E art. They were trying to appeal to a new generation (hence the tatts n' piercings), and they were trying not to offend women (hence no more Elmore-esque chainmail bikinis). I think that was a sound business decision, but I'm sure they also knew they wouldn't be able to please everybody.

If they're trying not to offend women with chainmail bikinis then what explains Mialee's outfit? It'd look pretty much in keeping with the Elmore (or Frank Frazetta or Clyde Caldwell--let's not pretend that Elmore was the only offender in that area) art of yore. Come to think of it, Alhandra is basically wearing an old school Elmore outfit over her clothes. (Maybe it's that paladin code--"the contract says I have to wear this bimbo outfit so I will (lawful) but I don't wish to degrade myself or other women and the contract doesn't say I can't wear anything else so I'll wear some clothes underneath it.")

And something definitely needs to be said about the armor. Looking at the PH illustrations, could anyone tell the difference between any of the armors except for fullplate (and maybe the chain shirt) at a glance? Their breastplate certainly doesn't look anything like any breastplate I've ever seen.

I don't mean to come down too hard on 3e art. Some of the pictures look alright and I prefer the new covers to the 2e ones. The line art in the class books is also quite good. But there's quite a bit of silliness in the 3e art as well.

 

[Sulimo]

If they're trying not to offend women with chainmail bikinis then what explains Mialee's outfit? It'd look pretty much in keeping with the Elmore (or Frank Frazetta or Clyde Caldwell--let's not pretend that Elmore was the only offender in that area) art of yore.

You know I've really gotten this wrt 2e art. I mean I didnt think it was that excessive at all. Its not like the art was competing with other well-known artists like Boris and Julie Bell.

 

[mythago]

So are you suggesting that anyone who doesn't have the same taste as you is bourgois? That's not very nice, is it?

I dunno, I thought it was along the same lines as suggesting people who get tattoos or piercings are merely trendbots, soon to suffer the same fate as smiley-face designs or shoulder pads. Is that, too, not very nice?

Of course it's true that if you have multiple eyebrow piercings, you ought to remove them before you go for your job interview at a white-shoe law firm. But nobody argued otherwise--the strong reactions are to the point you specifically made, that all this body mod stuff is the 80s-big-hair of our era.

(BTW, yes, we are hijacking the thread, but the sensible time to drop the subject in that manner is *before* you try and get the last word in, not after. )

but I see people here complaining about Elmore and whomever else for their "boobage"...

Not 'boobage' per se (god, what awful phrasing), but that particular genre of unrealistic softcore that portrays a hot babe who happens to be dressed as, say, a fighter...rather than a tough fighter who happens to be a hot babe. Does that make sense?

 

[Sulimo]

Not 'boobage' per se (god, what awful phrasing), but that particular genre of unrealistic softcore that portrays a hot babe who happens to be dressed as, say, a fighter...rather than a tough fighter who happens to be a hot babe. Does that make sense?

Well, part of that might be that female fighters are probably more likely to look like your average female body builder than a model, which may not be as attractive in some sections of the gamer community.

 

[mythago]

That would kill the realism argument, then, wouldn't it? If the reason for drawing a character a certain way is "Our customer base likes it," then that applies whether you're drawing a paladin in a bikini or a sorceror in Adam Ant armor. It's silly to say well, spiked armor wouldn't work in real combat so that's a bad drawing--but that elf chick with spindly arms wielding a greatsword? Hell, that's SEXAH!

 

[jgbrowning]

What if the Hokey Pokey *IS* what it's all about?

I've been meaning to say this for quite a long time and i thought this thread would be appropriate...

your sig is, quite simply, amazing.

joe b.