3E art and age

[kenjib]

See, and this is exactly the opposite of my viewpoint. We're talking about a FANTASY world here. Why, in a world filled with dragons, magic, fireballs, and giants, would a warrior's armor look exactly like that of a medieval knight? If I were going to fight against a dragon who I knew would probably pick me up and eat me, I'd want as many spikes on that armor as possible. I find the historically-based stuff to be pretty much out of place.

If you were going to fight against a dragon, you wouldn't be wearing mundane plate mail armor. I'm all for fantastic and powerful suits of magical armor looking all twisted and strange. That's great. But they should have saved that for the magic items section, not placed it in the section on standard gear. Even in a high fantasy world it's kind of absurd to the point of parody imagining a typical blacksmith wasting that kind of intense time and effort on every single suit of armor that leaves his shop and sells for standard street value.

I like the standard mooks to wear standard armor. That makes the people with the strange spikey stuff stick out and make an impression. Less is more. If everything is strange and spikey, nothing is actually strange and spikey in context.

IMO the WotC illustrations have all the subtlety of a raging cow in heat. That's fine sometimes, but it just creates too much white noise for me when it's everywhere all at once.

 

[kenjib]

I don't see any of the iconics wearing black trenchcoats and white makeup and listening to the Cure or whatever the heck goths do. I don't see any wrist-mounted keyboards or cybernetically-enhanced limbs. Honestly, I really don't get it.

Lidda? Devis? The only reason you can't see the headphones blasting Trent Reznor into their ears is because they are low profile ear inserts that got airbrushed out in post production.

 

[MeepoTheMighty]

The problem that I have with 3e art is that it is SOOOOO turn-of-the-milleniumish. By which I mean, "hey, in 1999/2000, tattoos, body-piercing, hairstyles, Fredericks of Hollywood, and freakish metal pieces on your outfit are cool." The iconic characters tend to reflect this - they are all into tattoos, piercings... etc. The iconic characters are, for lack of a better word, the embodiment of high school students - the way some of them dress and the rest of them would if their parents would let them. Blech. We're depicting a fantasy here, not depicting fantasy itself.

You dern kids! Git offa my lawn! And stay outta my bushes! Damn whippersnappers.

 

[Zaruthustran]

26, dislike 3E art. I prefer practical armor, not the spiky, non-functional, overstrapped junk seen on Sorcerer Iconic and the horrible, horrible, horrible equipment illustrations in the PHB.

Is it too much to ask for Plate Mail to look like real Plate Mail?

-z

 

[HellHound]

Sigil - you and I generally get along...

BUT.

for lack of a better word, the embodiment of high school students - the way some of them dress and the rest of them would if their parents would let them. Blech.

This is SO... "ageist".

I'm no high school student.
I am all these things.

I am pierced.
I am tattood.
I am branded.
I wear leather.
I wear body jewelry.
I wear buckles.
I wear black.
I have "freakish pieces of metal" on my outfit.
I have dreadlocks.
I have a mohawk.

I am 32.

By reducing this all to a high school trend, you are insulting your own peers.

 

[Turlogh]

I think I had a brain fart when writing my post. I meant cyberpunk- which would be fine if it was Shadowrun but its a fantasy game and the style does not say fantast to me. A lot of the armours don't even look practical or seem to offer any sort of protection, as well as being so stylised as to cost way more than standard prices.

The monster manual is the worst offender for bad art- Displacer Beast, Minotaur, Tarrasque to name just a few.

By Cyber punk and goth I meant that every body needs to have tattoos, multiple piercings and has a penchant for wearing blacks/dark colours.

I guess art is really subjective ehh

 

[The Sigil]

Sigil - you and I generally get along...
<snip>
By reducing this all to a high school trend, you are insulting your own peers.

I apologize if you found it insulting - I merely made the comparison to highlight a couple of points (which I felt were self-evident, apparently they were not).

WotC as much as admitted that they were targetting the books in two places: (1) the experienced gamer and (2) the high-school-age crowd.

The experienced gamer, by and large, will look past the art and focus on the rules and such... though of course he will have his favorite artists.

Experienced gamers run the gamut of tastes, preferences and so forth - the only "common factor" among them is usually that they like RPGs.

Therefore, there is no way for WotC to target the experienced gamer with art. They're just not "attracted" by it - they want solid rules.

Conclusion? WotC's focus on the art was aimed at drawing in "new blood" to the gaming community from the ranks of high schoolers (probably because they're the most likely non-gaming demographic to have the time, disposable cash, and inclination to experiment with it). Since they aren't familiar with the internal workings of RPGs, it needs to "look cool" to hold their attention. Hence, the art is aimed at those things that high-school age youth, by and large, find cool so that they will stick around long enough to acquaint themselves with the rules. The hope is that they'll enjoy it enough to stick with it - and then they will become experienced gamers. They'll be able to look past the "cheesy" Elmore art and enjoy classic D&D stuff. They'll be able to look past the simplicity and lack of art in Librum Equitis Vol. 1 and the Enchiridion of Mystic Music long enough to see the value in them.

Some of these "new gamers" will find that their tastes change as they age. Some won't.

That your particular tastes happen to correspond to what I perceived to be the taste of high schoolers in no way invalidates your own tastes or suggests that you are immature... or even is meant to lump you into the "high schooler" category. I'm not "more mature" than you are, that's for sure... you can figure that out based on my annoyance at the current artwork style, I guess LOL.

The point is, they're not trying to appeal to me. Or to you. They don't care that you like these things and I don't. They DO care that the high school crowd likes these things.

I understand completely what they're doing - I just wish they hadn't done it. Why not? Because I want them catering to me of course.

Am I getting my point across or digging a deeper hole for myself? I fear it's the latter.

--The Sigil

 

[John Crichton]

I'll concede the covers, but really - goth? cyber? Where are you getting these from?


I don't see any of the iconics wearing black trenchcoats and white makeup and listening to the Cure or whatever the heck goths do. I don't see any wrist-mounted keyboards or cybernetically-enhanced limbs. Honestly, I really don't get it.

Are these just supposed to be insulting ways to say "looks like it was drawn in this decade?"

I'm gonna have to second this. I can understand it not looking like "classic" armour, weapons, etc. And I can understand not liking the taste. But it's not that far from functional. IMHO, of course...

 

[Goremole]

I'm 33 ( My God, where did the time go? ) and an illustrator, and I must say I really like the 3E art ; especially that of Lockwood and Sam Wood. I think their reinvention of the visual style of DnD works really well.

I do have to say that some of the best art I have seen for 3E has been from FFG's Legends & Lairs series. I like Mitch Cotie, Andy Brase, David Griffith, and Tyler Walpole. Whoever did Hammer and Helm from Green Ronin aslo did an outstanding job.

By the way, Gothmog, if you are reading this, thanks for the comments on the Legends and Lairs art and it was myself who illustrated all of Hammer and Helm for Green Ronin.

 

[jgbrowning]

I never liked the spiky armor because how the heck are you gonna get up once you get knocked on your back and you have 6 or so spikes in the ground? In front i can understand as were sortta meant to bend that way but....?

Also spiky armor should stick into things like giant clubs. Would any adventurer risk that problem?

joe b.