3E art and age

[The Sigil]

I never liked the spiky armor because how the heck are you gonna get up once you get knocked on your back and you have 6 or so spikes in the ground? In front i can understand as were sortta meant to bend that way but....?

Also spiky armor should stick into things like giant clubs. Would any adventurer risk that problem?

joe b.

Furthermore, let's look at the argument:

An adventurer might be grabbed by a dragon or similar - spikes are good then.

True, but how often do adventurers face a dragon and how often do they face humanoid (read: same tactics as human vs. human) foes (such as goblins, orcs, etc.)

The 1% of the fights involving dragons do not, IMO, justify the kludginess of wearing spikes in the other 99%.

For standard worlds, where lots of orc-slaying and goblin-hunting goes on, armor REALLY SHOULD look like medieval armor - because the function is really the same - to armor, man vs. goblin is pretty much the same as man vs. man. Usually castles are under assault by... that's right, goblin/orc hordes - creatures that are, in effect, interchangeable with humans. That means that structures, et al will look like medieval ones - because 99% of the threats are just like human threats.

Which is why the occasional dragon is even MORE deadly than it would be if they did run around with spikes on all the time.

--The Sigil

 

[Olive]

as a 26 year old tattooed person, who wears a moderate amount of balck, but happens to right now be wearing za deadguy band tshirt with a large inverted bathory pentagram on it...

i love WAR. love him. but most of the other 3e artists... i can give or take. Reynolds is the only one who sticks out to me.

but: i hate the tattoo/piercing stuff in 3e, especially the 'tattoos and piercings are EEEEEEEVVVVVIIIIILLLLLL' concept. plus, it has to be said that while i like balck tattoos, i hate tribal stuff. apart from the fact that its barely done anymore (very mid 90s) its just really inintersting in my opinion.

i also, particulary hate the elven armour stuff. it looks nuts.

but i said neutral over all: i especially like the lines in the PHB.

 

[shadow]

In my opinion, one of the most inspiring pieces of art work was found in the original 2nd edition PHB. It was the picture of in the front of the book featuring the adventuring party that had just slain a young dragon. I believe it was done by Elmore. Anyway, it was very realistic looking. Furthermore showing all the "iconic" characters together really captured the spirit of high fantasy for me. Although the armor and dress of the characters were not "historical" by any means, it seemed a lot more believable than the spiky, mismatched armor and punk hairdos found in the art of the new PHB.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

I'll concede the covers, but really - goth? cyber? Where are you getting these from?

Almost exclusively from pictures of Hennet the Iconic Sorcerer, is my guess. He's the closest thing to such genres (and he isn't even that close) in the D&D books. Other than him, I can't think of anything even close to being goth or cyberish. Well, maybe the golems in the MM? Could those be construed as cyber-like? I always thought of golems, especially iron golems, as rather robot-like, but I could be one of only a few.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Furthermore, let's look at the argument:

An adventurer might be grabbed by a dragon or similar - spikes are good then.

True, but how often do adventurers face a dragon and how often do they face humanoid (read: same tactics as human vs. human) foes (such as goblins, orcs, etc.)

The 1% of the fights involving dragons do not, IMO, justify the kludginess of wearing spikes in the other 99%.

For standard worlds, where lots of orc-slaying and goblin-hunting goes on, armor REALLY SHOULD look like medieval armor - because the function is really the same - to armor, man vs. goblin is pretty much the same as man vs. man. Usually castles are under assault by... that's right, goblin/orc hordes - creatures that are, in effect, interchangeable with humans. That means that structures, et al will look like medieval ones - because 99% of the threats are just like human threats.

Which is why the occasional dragon is even MORE deadly than it would be if they did run around with spikes on all the time.

--The Sigil

Yeah, but the guys depicted in the pics in question are adventurers, as you say, who should be going out of their way to find critters like dragons and giants that can pick 'em up and squish 'em. It's never occurred to me before now that what we were seeing were run-of-the-mill footsoldiers, or low-level adventurers. I've always assumed that the pictures depicted heroes who have accumulated some levels. Maybe the common grunt wears stuff good against mostly humanoids (and who's to say that humanoids are the main threat in all campaign worlds?), but an adventurer would probably commission specially made armor. If convenience is an issue, where are the squires for all these guys in armor, who can't put it on without help, or the pulleys to put them on their horses?

Plus, I don't see any pics of armor where the spikes cover it so entirely one would stick to the ground if one fell. It's mostly around the shoulders and arms.

 

[JeffB]

You CAN do modernized armor and weapons that have a fantasy look, and still not look "dungeon-punk" and different just to be different.

Check out the LOTR movies. Perfect example of cool without being over the top.

Yep the orcs are pierced..but it's done in a way that doesn't make it look "cool"..it's done in a way where you say "ewww". IN fact the piercings are more like staples.They have some spikes and pointy stuff on the armor too, but it's not so obviously deviant from real world equivalents to look "unrealistic" "unbelievable".

Check out Decipher's LOTR RPG. There are some great close-up still shots of the armor and weapons of men, elves, and orcs. Great stuff. And some of it looks very similar to the stuff Bill Willingham and Jeff Dee were doing when they came into the TSR fold in the late 70's/early 80's prior to the Elmore, Easley, and Holloway years.

In fact P.J. nailed the images of Orcs I've always had bopping arund in my head since I was a kid. The only thing I think that could have been to make them absolutely perfect was to have the skin colors darker..almost black, as Tolkien described them.

At any rate, Art is very subjective. Has been sice the first guy (or gal) drew a line in the dirt with a stick or his finger or...

IMO, of course.

 

[jgbrowning]

Yeah, but the guys depicted in the pics in question are adventurers, as you say, who should be going out of their way to find critters like dragons and giants that can pick 'em up and squish 'em.

Plus, I don't see any pics of armor where the spikes cover it so entirely one would stick to the ground if one fell. It's mostly around the shoulders and arms.

Should they be more worried about getting picked up or about that giants uprooted tree trunk club nailing into their spiky armor? I just see the poor fighter being stuck on the end of the giants club...

Also those spikes seriously concentrate force if the material they hit is able to withstand the force. A giant with a magic mace would drive those spikes out of their holds (like hammering a nail out of a board) and into the unfortunate armor wearer.

As to the spikes on the back, we can't see the back, but on the full plate it does look like there'd be a row of spikes about 1-2 inches down the back if they follow the same trend they do on the front. They may not stick all the time but i'd worry about it..

joe b.

 

[Grim]

I'm 16, and I love 3e art. But since ive only played 3e, I have never seen other addition's art, so I'm not really one to judge...

Ehhh, youth...

 

[Davelozzi]

Dislike the new "Steampunk" art.

Wasn't real fond of the "technical" quality of some of the early 1e/oD&D stuff.

Elmore, Easley, Caldwell, and (dangit, whoever illustrated the interior of B4 - also did some of the endless quest books - can't recall the name) did it for me. The old Basic/Expert/Companion/Master sets.

Nothing else has even come close for me.

I agree with the Sigil all the way, and I'm 27, although in a moment of non-drunken stupor, I think I checked the 22-25 category for some reason. Oops.

I also agree with Jeff B. that the LotR movie and it's related games do a pretty good job of pulling off a less traditonal look without going overboard.

 

[Spatula]

Maybe I'm missing something... None of the iconics are pierced. No one is covered in spikes. Of the iconics that are wearing armor, that armor certainly looks functional to me (see Jovan, Tordek). Perhaps I could understand the anti-3E art arguments better if they appeared to have some substance to me. The art in the equipment chapter is pretty terrible, but most people's objections seem to be focused on the character art, which to me doesn't look appreciatively different that what has always been in D&D - except perhaps that it's more detailed now. And just about anything's better than the race & class illustrations that were in the final version of the 2E PHB.

I've been through all the editions of D&D. Back in the old days I really enjoyed Bill Willingham and Earl Otus, and perhaps some others whose name I don't recall. In the 2E days I loved Brom's work, and DiTerlizzi, and I liked Easley's paintings (Easley's 3E work doesn't look that great, though). I think Lockwood and Wood are easily as good as any D&D artist that has come before, and I really dig Wayne Reynold's work too.