3e too complicated ?

[rounser]

For most NPCs, though, I don't think you need to fully stat them. Give them the standard ability spread. Figure their BAB and saves. Slap a couple of feats and skills on and you're good to go. For the majority of NPCs, this is good enough. Who cares if it isn't wholly accurate? You might want to fully stat your BBEG as you would a PC, though.

I think you need to reread my post.

 

[Dark Jezter]

I don't think that 3e is more complicated. In fact, I wasn't actually able to get into D&D until 3e came out. I'd tried playing 2e AD&D, but couldn't enjoy it because many of the rules seemed like they were complicated for the sake of being complicated: THAC0, sometimes good to roll high, sometimes it was good to roll low, having to reference a chart for almost every action you took, etc.

Not that 2E was a bad system. It was a decent system for its time, but after playing 3e, I doubt very highly that I could ever go back to 2nd Edition.

 

[Grazzt]

Mythus: Dangerous Journeys...just 6 easy steps!

Sound off if you know what I'm talking about.

Cedric

Heh- I know exactly what you are talking about . I still have my Mythus books too....

 

[fba827]

I enjoy taking the time to buid a character so I _take_ my time. However, I don't have to if I don't want to and can whip out a character fairly quickly.

That said, though, I admitedly remember large amounts of the rules already (such as several feats and what each skill does, etc) -- obviously, this is at the expense of remembering things I'm supposed to.. but, that's irrelevant to this conversation

So I guess I am trying to say it comes down partially to familiarity with the stuff. Of course, most rational people don't have the luxury of being so exceptionally familiar with the stuff that they can breeze through it...

 

[Destil]

I s it just me, or is 3e becoming more and more complicated. It seems that you just can't complete a task without reading a rule in some rulebook, and it takes ages (well, not ages, but about 30 minutes) to create a new character because of all the skills, feats and so on.
Where are the happy days of basic D&D?

If you want simplicity, just don't allow anything outside the three core book. And don't worry about posting rules questions here and letting the language lawyers go over just what "Strikes as invisible" means in the blink spell, just let the DM make a quick judgement call and keep playing.

The basic rules work fine on their own, you know.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

1e/2e: "I move up to engage the ogre, taking my attack. A 14, +1 for my magic sword, and +2 for strength, that's a total of 17, does that hit?"

3e: I tumble past the goblins. A 16, that's good enough to avoid any aoos, I draw my sword as I move, since I have a bab of at least +1, tumble to avoid the ogre's reach - an 18, and attack the ogre - I'm using 3 points of expertise, so my ac is 23 this round, and I'm power attacking for 2 points. I rolled an 18, +1 for my sword, +2 for strength, -3 for expertise, and -2 for power attacking. Let's see, that's 18 +3 - 5,that's er, um, 16, do I hit?


Yeah 3e is simpler alright.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Yeah 3e is simpler alright.

Well, let's see.

As a 6th level thief, my THAC0 is [check table] 19. The ogre is AC 5, and the Weapon Type vs AC Adjustment factor of a two-handed sword is [check table] +2, so that's a total of 19... except that I'm a thief, so my non-proficiency penalty is [check table] -3, for a total of 16. So I hit AC 3 - a hit!

My damage is 3d6, because the ogre is Large, rather than 1d10 if he were Small or Medium.

The ogre has 4 hit dice, so his THAC0 is [check table] 15. My AC is 4, but my AC type is 8 (leather armor, no shield). Fist vs AC type 8 is a [check table] +2 modifier.

You know, it's crazy using a two-handed sword I'm not proficient with. I'll drop it and try to pummel him. So, let's see, once we determine initiative, I determine my Variable Applicable to Pummeling Attacks. The colum I use for weapon attacks as a 6th level thief is [check table] the second column, 5-8. As the attacker, then, I take that number, 2, and add a secret 1d6. [roll] Total of 5.

I determine my Base Score to Hit. That's his AC x 10, or 50%. That's modified by my Dexterity modifier (+2); my Strength, per point over 15 - no good there; my AC, per point, by type - my AC by type is 8, so that's +8; and the ogre's base move over 12" - he only moves 9", so no modifier. Total chance to hit : 60%. (I can add my Variable, 5, to that number if I want, but I need to decide that for each attack.)

So, for this round, I'll save my Variable for if I'm successful. Roll - a 43. Below 60%, I hit! So, I roll percentile to see the result - a 28. I add my Variable, 5, for a base of 33%.

That's modified by my Strength, per point over 12 - 14 is +2%. I'm wearing a gauntlet - +5%. Modified by Defender's dexterity, per point over 14; oops - I don't know what an ogre's dexterity is. But it's probably not over 14. And the armor the ogre is wearing. Well, he's not, but he's got thick skin... treat it as studded leather, maybe? So that's -20%.

Total is 20%. Consult the table - Ineffective blow, no damage, but I get to strike again...

Hooray for the simplicity of 1E!

-Hyp.

 

[Tom Cashel]

Hypersmurf, you're the only one who used all those stupid rules.

 

[Darkness]

Hypersmurf, you're the only one who used all those stupid rules.

...and also the only one who wouldn't write stuff like Thac0 on his sheet.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Hypersmurf, you're the only one who used all those stupid rules.

Well, if we're not talking about using the canon rulesets, then what are we comparing? A pared-down, house-ruled-to-hell 1E versus a Core 3E?

It's no longer apples and oranges, is it?

I can say how simple 3E is, since I got rid of Feats, Skills, AoOs, and Prestige Classes... but it's not exactly a useful evaluation of the system.

-Hyp.