D&D 3E/3.5 3E versus 3.5E: Weapon Size

[delericho]

Longswords and Greatswords, however, are radically different in the way they're wielded. A large part of a Greatsword's blade has a dull edge, and is supposed to be gripped in combat. Also, Greatswords have much longer hilts, even relatively speaking. If you ever look into a medieval fencing instructions book to see how Greatswords were actually employed in combat, you'll see that they work very, very differently from Longswords.

Bear in mind that the greatsword includes not just your "medieval fencing" version, but also the Japanese no-dachi, the Scottish claymore, and basically any other sword too long to be a bastard sword. What you've said above in not universally applicable to all of these.

 

[Jackinthegreen]

Granted, there are examples of weapons that will work at different sizes. A Battleaxe might be usable as a Greataxe for a Goblin, or a Gratclub as a Club by an Ogre.

Longswords and Greatswords, however, are radically different in the way they're wielded. A large part of a Greatsword's blade has a dull edge, and is supposed to be gripped in combat. Also, Greatswords have much longer hilts, even relatively speaking. If you ever look into a medieval fencing instructions book to see how Greatswords were actually employed in combat, you'll see that they work very, very differently from Longswords.

In fact, I'm not even sure they should be doing more damage than a straightforward Longsword in D&D - they're a bit unwieldy, but much more flexible in what you can do with them. If I were to model them, I'd probably give them the option to do bludgeoning damage, and a big bonus to certain combat maneuvers, downsize them to 1d8 or 2d4 damage, and maybe even require an Exotic Weapon Proficiency.

I wouldn't say a greatsword requires exotic proficiency to wield, but it definitely has bonuses to certain things. Fullblades definitely require training though. Most often it's a crushing weapon and was brutally effective against armor because of that. I'm dubious of gripping the blade itself, regardless of how sharp it is. The grip should accommodate the hands quite well and the ones I've used had at least foot long grips. The fullblades could go two feet or so. Come to think of it, I think William Wallace used a fullblade since it was described as being an unusually massive weapon.

I don't agree on reducing its damage, since that'd put it lower than a bastard sword when it clearly isn't. The bludgeoning part I fully agree with, probably even putting it into doing bludgeoning and slashing damage.

 

[Empirate]

Bear in mind that the greatsword includes not just your "medieval fencing" version, but also the Japanese no-dachi, the Scottish claymore, and basically any other sword too long to be a bastard sword. What you've said above in not universally applicable to all of these.

Good point, hadn't thought of that.

 

[Perimones]

Weapon equivalency

Just started a new campaign where there are 3 small and 3 medium PCs. It's the dungeon crawl module called hall of the minotaur from Goodman games. So the PCs are a bunch of farmers with 1 level in a NPC class, with not much equipment, and not very proficient with weapons.

The 3.5 rules are a big pain. Every time they manage to kill some creatures and they take their weapons I have to say to half of them "well if you use this weapon you'll get a penalty because you're the wrong size" I just thought that's retarded. And I couldn't remember where that size-equivalent chart was (p.27 of the DMG). Like somebody said before, in d&d a longsword is not a weapon, it's a category of weapon. I'm walking in the forest and I find a very big sword with a blade 6-foot long, I take it and I use it as a greatsword slashing people with it. But in reality, it's a colossal half-fiend's dagger, and he spends his holidays happily piercing and stabbing people with it and he even throws it once in a while just for the heck of it. To me that's the level of realism I want so my suspension of disbelief works. I know, I know the grip, the balance, etc. But when something doesn't work for the DM or the players.... that's when I step in and do my job as the DM and fix it.

 

[jasper]

I like 3E. As others have stated the weapons types are broad range of weapons. And I think about using RW examples when a harpy swoops down and eats the nieghbor's dog... Strike that I think my ex mother in law could do so with out wings.
So I use RW examples when a dragon lands on the high school burns it down and complains to the city council about improperly labeled maidens which are pass their freshness date.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I'm walking in the forest and I find a very big sword with a blade 6-foot long, I take it and I use it as a greatsword slashing people with it. But in reality, it's a colossal half-fiend's dagger, and he spends his holidays happily piercing and stabbing people with it and he even throws it once in a while just for the heck of it. To me that's the level of realism I want so my suspension of disbelief works. I know, I know the grip, the balance, etc. But when something doesn't work for the DM or the players.... that's when I step in and do my job as the DM and fix it.

I can't find the original, which was way better than the version below that I quickly hacked together, but I always considered it definitive proof as to why the 3.0 weapon size rules don't work.

If anyone has the original (which was based on Conan holding his sword above his head, parallel to the ground), can you point me to it?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I can't find the original, which was way better than the version below that I quickly hacked together, but I always considered it definitive proof as to why the 3.0 weapon size rules don't work.

If anyone has the original (which was based on Conan holding his sword above his head, parallel to the ground), can you point me to it?

While I cannot claim any link to that picture, that is EXACLY the kind of thing I was talking about with my scale replica greatsword letter opener and my RW knife of identical lengths. Thanks for the visual!