3x Empowered Cats Grace

[kreynolds]

The problem inherent in spell DCs is insta-kill spells.

The problem inherent in high damage bonuses is the Death from Massive Damage rule. An insta-kill sword hit is no different than an insta-kill spell. One is done close. One is done from afar. However, I would argue that a fighter has a far greater amount of insta-kill hits at his disposal than insta-kill spells of any spellcaster of equal level.

Point in case is the Knight of the Chalice. I've never seen a Pal 8/Rgr 1/KotC 6 deal out so much damage. Granted, such a great amount of damage only occurs while fighting a demon, but by the same token, such high spell DCs as 30 + spell level only occur with a single school of magic, so its about the same.

Barring a vorpal weapon of some sort

Vorpal weapons are a poor example. It is a weapon enhancement that functions soley upon the judgement of the DM. It's completely unreliable compared to other components of D&D that are governed by rules.

...the fighter has to whittle the hp of something to take it down.

No, he/she doesn't. See first answer.

Consider also that including spells from all sources can lead to potentially crazy results:

I agree, but it largely depends upon the source. For example...

(from BoEM)

...anything from this book is subject to "Oh my God! Does that say what I think it says! Holy crap that's awfully powerful!". Don't get me wrong though. I really like the book.

Consider a human Wiz 5/Red Wizard 10

Starting Int 16
1st level feat: Spell Focus (Necromancy)
1st level feat: Greater Spell Focus (Necromancy)
Spell DC for Necromancy: 17 + spell level

Then, toss in Spell Power +5 for Red Wizard levels
Add in a 3x Empowered Fox's Cunning
and sprinkle Greater Magical Flow Enhancer (from BoEM)

Your DCs are now 30 + spell level.

As far as I'm concerned, the problem isn't with the buff spells. It's with the Red wizard (but it isn't really that big of a problem - see below).

Clearly you can make a fighter (esp. a ranged expert) a damage-dealing engine of destruction, but you cannot get a guaranteed kill like the mage described above.

Clearly, that mage described above will have to rely upon Necromancy spells, which means his options are now severely limited. As a DM, that means my options for countering such a character are far greater than normal (without even needing to metagame), as he is far weaker in other areas than normal. As a player, this means that I can pretty easily kill a good majority of anything I encounter, but it also means that I have wasted a good amount of feats and levels when they could have been used in other areas, areas such as those that would benefit my party, as well as myself.

Now that I think about it, it's not just a problem with the Red Wizard. It's a problem with the player that has a character such as the one above.

But hey, if playing high-powered games is your cup of tea then go for it.

That was rather rude. I'd like to continue this discussion, but not if you can't be civil about it.

 

[gfunk]

The problem inherent in high damage bonuses is the Death from Massive Damage rule. An insta-kill sword hit is no different than an insta-kill spell. One is done close. One is done from afar. However, I would argue that a fighter has a far greater amount of insta-kill hits at his disposal than insta-kill spells of any spellcaster of equal level.

But the Fort save is just DC 15. Not too hard to make.

As far as I'm concerned, the problem isn't with the buff spells. It's with the Red wizard (but it isn't really that big of a problem - see below)

Well, Spell Power in general was probably a bad idea to begin with.

Clearly, that mage described above will have to rely upon Necromancy spells, which means his options are now severely limited. As a DM, that means my options for countering such a character are far greater than normal (without even needing to metagame), as he is far weaker in other areas than normal. As a player, this means that I can pretty easily kill a good majority of anything I encounter, but it also means that I have wasted a good amount of feats and levels when they could have been used in other areas, areas such as those that would benefit my party, as well as myself.

Well, since he's pretty good with undead, you're pretty much stuck with constructs. Also, note that a Wizard could potentially fill his spell book with other useful spells. Super buff spells like Mind Blank and such are not spell DC dependent so they could still be cast.

Actually, Necromancy has some high-powered spells, but they are small in number. This probably leaves a lot of leeway to choose other types of spells.

Now that I think about it, it's not just a problem with the Red Wizard. It's a problem with the player that has a character such as the one above.

That depends how you define problem. It seems only logical to make the best of what is available. As far as character concept, it looks like he REALLY likes to kill things. ]

That was rather rude. I'd like to continue this discussion, but not if you can't be civil about it.

Sorry, that wasn't really meant in the context that you took it. My point was simply that some enjoy the FR/Epic Level campaign types. Nothing wrong with that, as long as you're having fun.