4e Annoyances for those who like 4e

Huge fan of 4e. That said, here we go:

  1. I wish the grid wasn't so necessary.
  2. Magic items may have nerfed a little *too* much.
  3. Needing to sleep in order to refresh your Daily Powers and HPs. Ugh---seems like a stale leftover from previous editions. I've been tinkering with having everything reset after the 4th encounter, regardless of in-game time.
  4. Expertise Feats: Kludgy math fixes annoy me.
 

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For me it's the stun-locking. Most fights I've run with solos or with BBGs have been pretty anticlimactic. While I think condition denial is an important aspect of the game, I feel solos, in particular, don't get enough of a leg up to combat it.

I don't have any suggestions for it. Just stating my experience this past year.
 

Huh...like others, one of the complaints is one of the things I think 4e did best.

Specifically, artifacts. The entire subsystem of artifacts and how they interact with the PCs and eventually move on is so "RIGHT" that I wish it would be instituted in EVERY D&D edition...
 

Skill challenges. Ugh, they're just terrible. An exercise in justifying rolling from a list of predetermined skills, and if you try to be creative and go outside whatever the DM thought would be the primary skills ahead of time, then you're just punished with harder DC's. It's roll dice until you succeed or fail, and if your remotely intelligent you'll just assist your way to victory. Maybe I just haven't participated in a well designed skill change, but frankly I think they're just awful and I've grown to dread seeing them coming. It's not that the idea is a bad one, its the implementation is extremely poor.

The hit numbers being so tightly balanced that you can't be really all that successful with mediocre stats in primary abilities. Lower than a 16 and you are shooting yourself in the foot, and even that's pushing it.
 

Well, as I said in the thread about stuff we like, I feel that 4E needed another six months of polishing the crunch and tightening the fluff.

Specific things that annoy me:

1) Many of the mechanics feel bolted-on, like hasty patches. They should be streamlined and simplified to make them fit better within the overall system. Some examples:
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  • The fighter's Combat Challenge should be revamped to use the opportunity attack rules, instead of being its own separate beast.
  • Tracking magic item daily powers is too complicated; there are two different limiting factors on their use. Either limit the number of magic item powers you can use per day, or limit each item to use once per day, but not both. Better yet, get rid of magic item dailies altogether, or have them replace your own dailies.
  • A bunch of abilities, like the ranger's Prime Shot power or the elf's Perception bonus to allies, are a nuisance to keep track of in exchange for a piddling +1. IMO, no conditional bonus should ever be less than +2.
  • Bonus type used as a balancing factor. As others have said - any bonus that comes from a power should be a power bonus, any bonus that comes from a feat should be a feat bonus, and any bonus that comes from an item should be an item bonus, no exceptions, thank you, good night.
  • Masterwork armor. I understand the reasoning behind this - it's to keep heavy armor from falling behind light armor as characters level up. But dear God, what a clumsy way to accomplish that! If you ask me, heavy armor should work like light armor, only keying off Str/Con instead of Dex/Int.
  • Tier-based bonuses (at-will powers gaining an extra damage die at Epic tier, powers with attack bonuses that scale by tier because they don't use weapons or implements). Again, a clumsy fix to make the math come out right.
  • "Feat patches" like Expertise and Paragon Defenses... yet again, math fixes. These have a bit more of an excuse since WotC had to find a way to fix the math after the fact, when it became clear that PC attacks and defenses fell behind in the upper tiers. Still, they shouldn't be necessary.
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2) Insufficient attention to making the fluff match the crunch. This takes three main forms:
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  • Bad choice of terminology. Case in point: healing surges. They shouldn't be called "healing," since they aren't always healing you (e.g., the warlord's Inspiring Word). Likewise, there should be a specific term for "trading a healing surge for hit points" - the phrase "spend a healing surge without regaining hit points" should never have seen print.
  • Mechanics where the fluff is obviously a half-assed attempt to justify the crunch after the fact. For example, clerical powers where you heal an ally by hitting an opponent (shouldn't that be more of a necromancer shtick?), or powers like the bard's Vicious Mockery that deal damage for no good reason.
  • Mechanics where there simply isn't any fluff for the crunch, or where the fluff and crunch are completely unrelated. A lot of feats, class abilities, and magic items are like this.
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3) Balance and general design problems. Others have listed most of these; V-shaped classes, grind at higher levels, minions being too weak for their XP value and too easily killed with auto-damage, warlock suckage, et cetera. WotC seems to be fixing a lot of this stuff in their more recent releases.

4) Magic items and the game economy are just a train wreck:
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  • Prices inflate at ludicrous speed (apparently lightspeed was too slow) as the PCs gain levels. This makes it impossible to price anything that doesn't fit into the "+X item" model. Look at the way the cost of a raise dead ritual scales by tier. They had to do that because otherwise characters at Paragon and Epic tier could resurrect each other essentially for free. And God forbid you want to set prices for things like castles and strongholds. Either no one short of Epic level can afford a stronghold, or Epic-level characters trade them like baseball cards.
  • As previously mentioned, magic item daily powers are a mess.
  • The magic item section of any book is a gigantic list of tiny statblocks. Instead of a moderate number of fairly versatile items, we have a bazillion uber-specialized items, and paging through them in search of stuff that fits a given character is about as much fun as reading the dictionary.
  • The age-old problem of "my favorite sword is relegated to backup status because it's +1 and I just found a +3" is still around.
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(Much of this, along with a lot of the math issues, could be fixed by scrapping the old "+X item" sacred cow.)

5) I hate the artistic style they picked for 4E. I don't generally buy into the "4E is WoW" meme, but I have to admit that most 4E art reminds me an awful lot of the cartoony, over-muscled, neon-colored Warcraft style (which I think was itself lifted from Warhammer). I dream of a day when the feet of human males can be distinguished from those of trees, the difference between "shoulder pad" and "helipad" is readily apparent, and neither breasts nor fists exceed the size of their owners' heads.

6) Two unrelated words smashed together do not constitute a creative and evocative name. Furthermore, "war" and "battle" are not prefixes meaning "more awesome."
 
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1. I think it would have been more interesting have real names for the places, like an Eladrin name for the Feywild, like for example a Tolkien-type name "Lothruin" and underneath would say "colloquially known as Fae, the Wild Beyond, or the Feywild."

"Margonoth, as it known to the Shadar-Kai, or colloquially known as the Plane of Shadow, the Dark World, or the Shadowfell..." I would much prefer. Of course, it may be more annoying to have to deal with a bad made-up name versus a bad name that at least describes the idea.

Of course, I know a large number of people who didn't do well with Tolkien, precisely because everything had 8 different names. "Who are they talking about here?" "Oh that is his name in the South" "That's stupid, why can't they just call him by one name".

Yes many of us appreciate the depth of detail, but many people bog down in the details, get lost and quit.
 

Of course, I know a large number of people who didn't do well with Tolkien, precisely because everything had 8 different names. "Who are they talking about here?" "Oh that is his name in the South" "That's stupid, why can't they just call him by one name".

Yes many of us appreciate the depth of detail, but many people bog down in the details, get lost and quit.

Yeah, generic names for concepts as broad as the Feywild and Shadowfell are better. Although why could they not simply have been called Faerie and Shadow?
 

It's been said already, but the Expertise and Defense Bonus feats are the biggest annoyances to me. I'd prefer the math be done properly from the start. A patch to the monster stats to account for it would also have been a better solution.

Skill challenges are a great concept, but definitely needed (and still need) tweaking.

V shaped classes, although this is less of a problem now that there are supplements with more options available for each build of these classes.
 


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