D&D 4E 4E: BBEG's Redemption?

[Lord Zardoz]

The problem with BBEG type opponents in 2nd and 3rd edition is pretty simple. They have 4 or more other guys unloading their best attacks on them while most D&D powers are really only good against 1 target.

My players are presently 9th level, and a successful attack from any one of them will do between 15 and 30 damage, whether it is the primary fighter pulling off hits on his primary and secondary attacks, or it is the average result of a successful save against a 9d6 Lightning bolt or a full magic missile volley. That kind of damage from multiple sources adds up fast.

Also, a bad save against a debuff or 'Save or Screwed' spell, (Slow, Hideous Laughter, Hold Person), or the party ranger pulling off Trip / Disarms will spell the end of an opponent pretty damn quick.

If you want a monster that can go solo against the players, you need to guarantee the following:

- It can withstand all the players beating on it for a few rounds
- It can average a PC kill rate of 1 every 4 rounds
- It can recover from being debuffed

One of the flaws with 3rd edition is that its hard to find an opponent that exists in the sweet spot for being a threat to the players. Too many go from being an overwhelming threat to being a trivial nuisance pretty fast. There are plenty of tricks in the tool box for monsters to achieve this, but many do not quite work out. Spell casters can often cripple a monsters effectiveness with a single spell.

Too many monsters are what can be called Glass Cannons. They can put out a staggering amount of damage, but just do not have the staying power they need to have a real impact. Others are just too easily neutralized (most undead).

END COMMUNICATION

 

[Imban]

In 3.5e, I tended to make my humanoid bosses under straight-up PC rules, occasionally with one or two special features. For example, one of the Evil Powered-Armor Wearing Drow bosses from a previous campaign used a Tentacle Rod as an off-hand weapon rather than a use-activated wondrous item.

In 4e, I don't really plan on changing this that much - humanoid bosses are essentially a straight-up contest between me and my players, champion against champions, build against builds. "He has entirely arbitrary powers, can reuse his attacks over the course of the fight while you can't, hit points a Final Fantasy boss would envy, a massive bonus to saving throws you can't come close to, and can use multiple action points in a fight while you can't" is basically entirely incompatible with this.

On the other hand, if the party is fighting Cazic-Thule, the God of Fear, entirely arbitrary powers, reusable Cazic's Touch, Final Fantasy Boss HP, shrugging off status effects, and multiple action points are all fine.

EDIT: Of course, my 3.5e bosses tend to come with parties or, uh, entire armies of their own.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

You to?? True gamer story: My character was a cleric of Wee Jas. He cast anti-magic (I believe it was domain) in the final campaign battle with the main villian. Needless to say the visual of a cleric and a lich rolling around in the dirt was silly (at least it was memorable).

Our high powered (not to say over-powered, totally out of balance and disregarding wealth-by-level guidelines, if it was not for us spending money on building a castle) Forgotten Realms campaign commonly featured Antimagic Fields as a solid protection against anything with dangerous spell-like abilities. I think we fought some Beholders with this technique, for example. (Antimagic Cone yourself, Eye Tyrant! Come here and get hacked to pieces with my +2 natural Enhancement Admantite Greatsword!)

 

[Knightlord]

My Star Wars villain (a Sith Lord no less ) was 6 levels higher than the entire party (he was 19th while they were 13th). In all honesty, they were never really supposed to fight him if they could help it, but i guessed (correctly it seemed) that one of the players would challenge him, so I statted him out just in case. He barely lasted 4 rounds. Unbelievable. And I believe one of the posters here already hit the nail on the head. His downfall: not enough actions. Sure, he had Destiny Points and Force Points, and he used them, but in the end, the players simply overwhelmed him with their own. Maybe it was my fault. Perhaps i failed somewhere when I constructed him. Maybe it was blind luck. Whatever it was, it turned out to be very disappointing. Sigh. Heres to looking forward to Solo encounters.

 

[Cirex]

After bad experiences with single BBEGs, I scrapped the idea of a normal combat (High powered NPC). Now the NPC may not even have a class level or anything. I just make different stages for the fight. That assures a long (very sometimes), epic and special fight. My PCs never make sorcerers or wizards, so many annoying things just don't happen.

I decided to shorten up a campaign last year, so I created a different phase fight. It was heavily influenced by some WoW encounters. It lasted around 6 hours and everybody loved it.

I was exhausted though.

 

[Voss]

As solos? No. My experience with the solo monster in the available 4e material has been very poor. After a flurry of activity the combat turned into a long, drawn out and extremely boring grind. That wasn't fun.

Elites... eh. I'm not to keen on them either, particularly with the glimpse of the template (+50% hp and +2 to defenses, was it?) Just making them able to soak more damage doesn't make them interesting. (plus its rather appropriate for what are usually considered soft targets- wizards and the like).

What I do like is the larger combats that don't turn into TPKs. At one point in a trial encounter, there were 10 monsters on the mat (two had already died). Mixing it up with a variety of monsters with a clear leader was fun, tactical, interesting, and heroic. Playing dogpile on the wizard (monster, dragon, whatever) definitely isn't. Beowulf fighting Grendel is interesting. Beowulf, the Gray Mouser, Bishop Otto and Gandalf playing 'Schoolyard Bullies' with Grendel, not so much, and sadly that was what 3e leaned toward.

And, of course, having tried it out, combats that were 6-12 monsters vs 6 PCs were more fun. Any combat with significantly fewer monsters than PCs were either dreadfully easy or dreadfully boring, even if the monsters were solos (the dragon) or just much higher level- I tried a level 10 Chuul against the sample characters and another encounter with a Gnoll Daemonic Scourge (8) & a Gnoll Clawfighter (6). Both were easy, which was a little disturbing. A defender went down in each encounter, but novaing dailies and encounter powers in the same round with action points basically meant that they tore the enemies down to manageable levels.

 

[Lacyon]

And, of course, having tried it out, combats that were 6-12 monsters vs 6 PCs were more fun. Any combat with significantly fewer monsters than PCs were either dreadfully easy or dreadfully boring, even if the monsters were solos (the dragon) or just much higher level- I tried a level 10 Chuul against the sample characters and another encounter with a Gnoll Daemonic Scourge (8) & a Gnoll Clawfighter (6). Both were easy, which was a little disturbing. A defender went down in each encounter, but novaing dailies and encounter powers in the same round with action points basically meant that they tore the enemies down to manageable levels.

The Chuul is worth 500 XP and the Clawfighter + Scourge is worth 600 XP. Against 6 1st-level PCs, who are supposed to win against 600 XP worth of monsters, neither of these fights is supposed to warrant the use of daily powers.

 

[deathdonut]

I love cheating as a DM.

Do your PC's tend to throw the kitchen sink at the BBEG as soon as he finishes his speech? I'm a big fan of the "misdirect" tactic. Ends up that it was only a minion or illusion giving the speech. The BBEG was the one standing next to him or behind the curtain. Now....what to do without that kitchen sink...

 

[Xethreau]

I am glad for this too. Not only will my villans be stronger, but I can ALSO give them powers and unique power triggers that my PC's could never have gotten. Not only is this good in a balance sence, but it is also good in a flavor sense, because my BBEGs have a reason for having unique powers.

 

[Shadowsmith]

I love cheating as a DM.

Do your PC's tend to throw the kitchen sink at the BBEG as soon as he finishes his speech? I'm a big fan of the "misdirect" tactic. Ends up that it was only a minion or illusion giving the speech. The BBEG was the one standing next to him or behind the curtain. Now....what to do without that kitchen sink...

I used this to great effect once. 2nd edition the party was hunting down a legendary white dragon. They found her lair and made their way part a number of traps to find her sleeping on a huge pile of treasure. They unleashed every powerful spell and magic item in an attempt to taker her down before she woke.

After noting the damage and 'making' the appropriate saves, I smiled and told them the illusion was destroyed. She spoke to them from her perch behind and above them. The wizard player nearly shat a brick. They got real grumpy when she tossed a rock with Antimagic on it down to them.