4E Campaign Announcement Time/Date

[guivre]

That would be cool and annoying: I would love a mass combat system right now, as my campaign is going to have one mass combat per tier.

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[fireinthedust]

It will not be Grayhawk:

1) Paizo was the greyhawk development team for so long, and they did that for 3e. The push for Greyhawk would likely not be there in the same way, and I could see it igniting more of the Pathfinder/WOTC bickering that's slowly dying down.

2) Gary Gygax has just recently died. Changing the edition and cosmology of Greyhawk would be such a smudge of his work that it could go sour and be seen as an insult. Granted, it was the 3e standard world, but he was still alive then. It's just too soon for a lot of people. If the FR backlash was bad, *any* changes here would be worse.

3) Enough Greyhawk elements are already in 4e that there isn't a point. Consider the manual of the planes having absorbed Grazzt AND Tasha/Iggwylv (I should check the spelling on her name). They're about as Core now as Ravenloft/Domains of Dread. Vecna is in Open Grave, along with Strahd von Zarovich, as is Kyuss. Dragonomicon 1 has Ashardalon's stats, as well as Dragotha.
Granted, that also sets Dragonlance out, as Cyan Bloodbane is in that one; however, the setting and novel is named outright.

If they do pick one of the settings that have been swallowed by POL that opens the floodgates for ALL settings in POL, such as Planescape, Ravenloft, Spelljammer, Dragonlance, etc.
The reason being that they're simply expanding the Core setting, or parts of the core setting. However they do it, I expect that's how they may get around to it.

I predict that may be the direction they'll go in from now on. Planescape/Spelljammer would be more viable because they have so many settings to swap between. Heck, that would allow Core to include both Swordmages *and* Artificers, as there would be a route to putting all of them in the same world WRITTEN INTO the fabric of Core cosmology.

which means more books.

Hmm, more questions than answers.

As long as they don't do a "possible worlds" where variant versions of all the settings exist, like Sliders. It's been done to death by comics.

I think original would be cool, but maybe not.

EDIT: basically, I'm saying if they change settings, it will be to make all of them fit the planar cosmology AND add to the rules set (ie: the aforementioned Dragonlance mass combat rules) of Core. That way all settings will be part of one big setting called Core.
I think that would be a good thing, if only because they could sell all their settings books as core books; also, that was fun with Planescape and 2e. Home games might be one setting only, but it could be done to have settings all over the place.

If so, I don't think they'll do utterly different Cosmology takes, like Eberron 3e's planes. Maybe not, but it hasn't been a trend.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I'd be cool with Greyhawk. Since I got into the game late in 2e, this would be the first version of the world that I could actually buy. There might be a few things you could exploit about the "old-school-ness" of the setting that 4e has pushed to the background, or only contains hints of.

I'm not sure that it IS Greyhawk, but I'd be fine with that.

However, I do think the reasons above don't hold that much water. To wit:

1) Paizo was the greyhawk development team for so long, and they did that for 3e. The push for Greyhawk would likely not be there in the same way, and I could see it igniting more of the Pathfinder/WOTC bickering that's slowly dying down.

I don't think it's in WotC's interest to "quiet" anything down, and I don't think there's anything to ignite out side of message boards. Indeed, if WotC was hoping to undermine Paizo's claim on the "real D&D experience", assuming Paizo even really has that claim, putting out Greyhawk would be pretty smart.

2) Gary Gygax has just recently died. Changing the edition and cosmology of Greyhawk would be such a smudge of his work that it could go sour and be seen as an insult. Granted, it was the 3e standard world, but he was still alive then. It's just too soon for a lot of people. If the FR backlash was bad, *any* changes here would be worse.

Going back to "Gary's Original Vision" would be a fitting homage to the father of our hobby, and satisfy most people who would be interested in a 4e Greyhawk. It would also let WotC very classily dedicate a book to the man's memory, especially if they anchor it in Gygaxian D&D tropes born of that first setting.

3) Enough Greyhawk elements are already in 4e that there isn't a point. Consider the manual of the planes having absorbed Grazzt AND Tasha/Iggwylv (I should check the spelling on her name). They're about as Core now as Ravenloft/Domains of Dread. Vecna is in Open Grave, along with Strahd von Zarovich, as is Kyuss. Dragonomicon 1 has Ashardalon's stats, as well as Dragotha.

Since every setting in 4e is there to loot for the core, I don't think this is a case against it in quite the same way that it is a case against Ravenloft, Spelljammer, and Planescape. It's not like Bane being a core god meant they aren't putting out FR, or that Warforged and Changelings being in the MM meant they aren't putting out Eberron.

But in a lot of ways, Planescape IS Sigil (for instance), so seeing Sigil in the DMG 2 means that there's not much left for a PS setting to go over, necessarily. If we saw the Free City of Greyhawk in the DMG 2, I think the chances of Greyhawk being a setting might be lower.

There hasn't been much hinting at Greyhawk aside from the "old school appeal" angle, though Greyhawk would meet that in spades.

 

[coyote6]

I'd be cool with Greyhawk. Since I got into the game late in 2e, this would be the first version of the world that I could actually buy.

Not really, unless there was something preventing you from [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Gazetteer-Dungeons-Dragons-Gary-Holian/dp/0786917423]buying[/ame] [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Living-Greyhawk-Gazetteer-Dungeons-Drangons/dp/0786917431]stuff[/ame] in late 2000.

 

[I'm A Banana]

The LG stuff struck me at the time as focused on RPGA-side things. As someone with no interest or activity in the RPGA, these products didn't seem like a setting as much as information for a part of the game that I wasn't involved in at all.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

One thing that someone else mentioned that bears looking at is the "What class will come with it?"

FR gave swordmages, Eberron gave artificers.

If I recall correctly, both books also gave a new race (maybe more? I haven't read through either)

At first glance, Dark Sun seems a shoe in with templars and Thri-Kreen, but I'm hoping not for the same reasons Banana already stated. Dark Sun would not play well with 4e.

Spelljammer, on the other hand, would fit 4e wonderfully. We get giffs as a new race, but what about class/PrCs?

Greyhawk I have no emotional investment in (sorry!), and I frankly know not a whole lot about, so I can't go into new races, classes, or how well it meshes with 4e.

Planescape would be...interesting to see with 4e. I'm not going to state it as good or bad. The race could be a generic plane-child to fit both old school tiefling and aasimar, and the PrCs could be for the various factions, but I'm not sure what the class would be. Maybe a generic philosopher type? The issue here is that they've ALREADY done a lot of Planescape stuff.

In the end, personally, I'd hope for Spelljammer. I think it fits the feel of 4e better then any of the other options and it's a good, classic 2e setting to draw in the old school commentary. Second place would go to Planescape, with a wide variaty of potential mechanics they could add in. Third goes to Greyhawk, because it lacks the mechanics, and least likely in my mind goes to Dark Sun, because it's my mind, and oh god please Wizards don't do that please please please.

 

[fireinthedust]

I don't think it's in WotC's interest to "quiet" anything down, and I don't think there's anything to ignite out side of message boards. Indeed, if WotC was hoping to undermine Paizo's claim on the "real D&D experience", assuming Paizo even really has that claim, putting out Greyhawk would be pretty smart.

the 3e design team for Greyhawk pretty much *is* Paizo. It might be smart, but keep in mind that the 4e design team (as much as I'm a fan of theirs) did 4eFR. It didn't fly, although I think the Abeir side of things is pretty cool. I haven't personally checked out the Eberron book, so I can't comment on that one.

The point is that, unless they do a bang up job, they won't necessarily get it "right". Moreover, the crew famous for the more recent Greyhawk material, is Paizo. Their fans, it could be argued, are the fans of Pathfinder. Their material is what has been attracting people to the game since the original modules. I think it'd be like trying to get hardcore OD&D players/grognards, to come to a 4e game.

Since every setting in 4e is there to loot for the core, I don't think this is a case against it in quite the same way that it is a case against Ravenloft, Spelljammer, and Planescape. It's not like Bane being a core god meant they aren't putting out FR, or that Warforged and Changelings being in the MM meant they aren't putting out Eberron.

But in a lot of ways, Planescape IS Sigil (for instance), so seeing Sigil in the DMG 2 means that there's not much left for a PS setting to go over, necessarily. If we saw the Free City of Greyhawk in the DMG 2, I think the chances of Greyhawk being a setting might be lower.

There hasn't been much hinting at Greyhawk aside from the "old school appeal" angle, though Greyhawk would meet that in spades.

Yes, but Grazzt, Iggwilv, Kyuss... the number of Greyhawk NPCs who are iconic POL characters now, is really up there. I don't think they have that many left that they could say "well yeah, we have a totally different world here". Maybe some named NPCs like Mordenkainen, and others who are entirely on the world. It would set the tone for the sheer size of the multiverse.
I'm not against Greyhawk, and I can see the potential... I just don't know. Maybe new, maybe that double-volume + module that's been talked about.

I remember asking some hardcore RPGA players what Greyhawk was all about, as 3e basically only published FR and Eberron books. They said everything that was put out was for Greyhawk, as it was the default setting. I didn't have a gazetter, but everything in general "should be assumed to be Greyhawk". Lords of Madness, Libris Mortis, Dragonomicon, MM 1-5, etc. All of it is Greyhawk.
To me that sounds like POL, but I've asked on the boards and gotten the reply that there is a concrete setting out there... somewhere. "and it's fantastic, I tells ye" (raspy voice through a grey beard). Other than some LG gazeteer and some assorted OD&D books, however, there isn't much to point to, and not many novels.

 

[Obryn]

I remember asking some hardcore RPGA players what Greyhawk was all about, as 3e basically only published FR and Eberron books. They said everything that was put out was for Greyhawk, as it was the default setting. I didn't have a gazetter, but everything in general "should be assumed to be Greyhawk". Lords of Madness, Libris Mortis, Dragonomicon, MM 1-5, etc. All of it is Greyhawk.

That's ... not quite the case, honestly.

While the 3.x default setting included Greyhawk elements, that's about as far as it went. The gods were switched around in priority, for one thing. For another, Greyhawk is honestly the 1e setting... that is, there are places for dwarves (of many varieties), elves (of even more varieties), gnomes (of two varieties), halflings (three kinds), humans (with a few non-game-related cultural groups), and half-orcs.

Greyhawk was mined for tons of ideas, mind you. Anything that was grabbed from 1e and advanced to 3e was basically from Greyhawk. But the 3e default setting was a lot more than its Greyhawk roots, if that makes sense.

-O

 

[wedgeski]

Yes I remember some early forum posts (not here, elsewhere) that claimed the 3E core rules "only applied to Greyhawk".

 

[SPECTRE666]

The Core World.

It would go with every PHB, DMG, and MM they produce.

It would go with every splatbook and adventure they produce.


Think about it.