4E Class Survivor - Round 2

[doctorhook]

Yeah... I'm kind of curious whether we'd get different results if we could restrict voting to people who are actively playing 4e. The warlord in particular is one that I think a lot of 3e fans dislike, but I'm not sure that's as true of 4e fans.

I've also noticed that the warlord is a bit polarizing- there are some people who really, really love him, and some people who feel resentful that its a melee character that isn't as strong as a fighter, and who loses out in order to help others. This poll encourages people to target their least favorite, but it doesn't measure positive feelings. Different voting structures might produce interesting results- perhaps a dual voting system in which you placed one negative vote on the class you most want to vote off the island, and one positive vote on the class you want to protect? Under that structure a class with a lot of fans and a lot of haters would even out, while a class with only a few haters but fewer fans would be knocked out quickly.

Not that I'm saying that's how this should be done. Its all just for fun anyways, its just interesting to wonder how things would turn out under other systems. I'm a political science nerd, and voting structures and how they influence outcomes is fascinating to me.

I agree, and good point. It certainly illustrates how subjective polls and surveys (and their results) can be!

 

[Invisible Stalker]

After playing the Invoker today at WWGD my second go-around(The first time I played the Swordmage), I've got to say that you couldn't pay me to do that again. I must admit I mostly picked him to a: try the class because there's no way I'd make one for a home game and b: I wanted the mini for him. But ugh, not playing an Invoker again. Maybe it was a lousy invoker or I don't get controllers or it's the fact that I still have no idea what the hell sort of schtick they're supposed to have other than 'I'm a divine wizard', but I just never really got into it or found my stride.

The Swordmage on the other hand was a blast and I greatly enjoyed it and felt like I was doing my job keeping stuff off the other players, even with it being an aegis I wouldn't likely use and only having two powers I would normally actually pick.

So yeah, next round, DEATH TO THE INVOKER.

I played the same two characters and had a diametrically opposed opinion. The Invoker's Astral Shift of the party to the high ground in round one was considered by the group as the MVP move of the day. The Invoker may not challenge my holy trinity of wizard, paladin and cleric, but it certainly ranks as one of my top tier classes.

Had the swordmage for round two and found it far more frustrating. I enjoy fey step, but if I want a Basic D&D elf, I'll play one in that game.

One class that moved up for me in the playing of the game was the artificer. Then again, I like leaders more than strikers. I'm probably in the wrong game in this thread.


Oh, and here's a Muppet News Flash: Fighters....STILL boring.

 

[Destil]

Die swordmage, because you were supposed to be a defender/striker, not a defender/controller - ie you do not feel right.

Odd, the assault swordmage in my game is a defender/striker, no contest. One of the most dangerous members of the party, for sure.

I'm voting for the warden, myself. An interesting defender, but he could use a few more non-transformation deilies or something akin to rage strike. And one of the the main draws of the class to me is a feat you can easily pick up via multiclass (Grasping Vines).

 

[yesnomu]

Eesh, two of my favorite classes on the chopping block! The Shaman is exciting to play and very flavorful to roleplay--I love having my bear do silly things, like drag my dwarf shaman around when he's got a wicked hangover. Their overall healing ability was unmatched until Divine Power's cleric boosts, too.

They are a bit party-dependent--you do need at least two melee combatants to make good use of them. But there's nothing like using a zone of winds to blow the fighter and the rogue into flanking position around an enemy, then healing them both to full with just one surge spent. (You can do this at level 1!)

I like most of the classes, but if pressed I suppose I'd pick the Warlock to vote off--they still aren't quite at the Striker bar yet, even with AP. Still a very flavorful and cool class, though.

 

[Hawke]

I'm definitely not anti-new class, though I guess I'm only really taking issue with the Warlord. In a delve or gameday event, I'd definitely pick one just to give it a shot - I don't want to knock it too bad until I try it. I just don't want to try it the most based on my initial and recent readthroughs. Too bad with so many awesome classes, none of us will get to try them all anytime soon.

Some positive thoughts on the Shaman have made me realize why I've been skeptical - the ideal party (according to an earlier post) is one with a few melee folks. The last few times I had a chance to play and skipped over the Shaman, I don't think he would've fit the party. Perhaps that left an unnecessary taste in my mouth about the class when in reality it just happened to be the situation.

 

[Glyfair]

In another close battle, the warlord is gone. Leaders are dropping like flies.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

In another close battle, the warlord is gone. Leaders are dropping like flies.

That's just tactically sound. If you can't geek the Wizard, pick the Leader that keeps everyone motivated.

Sad to see the Warlord gone so early. He seriously rocks.

What does he lead? What strategy can he implement through his powers, without the cooperation and ok of other players at the table?

What could Napoleon do without armies following his orders?
Of course a Warlord (in fact, every Leader class) needs someone to follow his "advice".

But not every Warlord leads by shouting commands. That's probably something Tactical Warlords do a lot (and their abilities fit that idea, with powers like Commanders Strike). Inspiring Warlords are leaders that inspire by their presence and actions.

 

[cdrcjsn]

In another close battle, the warlord is gone. Leaders are dropping like flies.

Going by the popularity of the class specific boards on the WotC forums, I'm not surprised.

If those boards are any indication, then it's going to be a striker that will win this class survivor challenge.

 

[Nai_Calus]

I played the same two characters and had a diametrically opposed opinion. The Invoker's Astral Shift of the party to the high ground in round one was considered by the group as the MVP move of the day. The Invoker may not challenge my holy trinity of wizard, paladin and cleric, but it certainly ranks as one of my top tier classes.

Had the swordmage for round two and found it far more frustrating. I enjoy fey step, but if I want a Basic D&D elf, I'll play one in that game.

I'm not talking about the cutesy teleportation stuff, I only bothered using Fey Step in the second fight and only because the duergar cleric had insulted me, my race and my god, so I Fey Stepped over to him, marked him, and whacked him, in cheerful defiance of sensible tactics.

See, the Swordmage, despite having maybe two powers I'd ever take, felt like I was doing my job and I felt actually effective. You want to try to go pound on the squishy? Enjoy your damage you just took trying to leave me, oh and here you are again, did you miss me while you were gone?

The Invoker on the other hand... Meh. The teleportation daily, the pull encounter power, and the one fire attack on the scarecrow thing were the only times I really felt useful. We were constantly too bunched up or too spread out for most of my encounter/dailies to be usable without nuking the party or only hitting one enemy, usually one which wasn't much of a threat to begin with. The pull and the teleport I used to get townspeople off an altar and teleport the artificer with the townspeople away from an enemy, and in the end it was pointless because the party killed them anyway while I was unconscious after I went down after being the only person in a position to keep the unconscious Barbarian from drowning long enough for the Artificer to heal him. *facepalm*

To be fair, I had terrible dice rolls with the Invoker as well.

The problem was that it broke down to mostly spamming the same one at-will with both characters, but while with the Swordmage and Booming Blade that felt like I was actually doing something, with the Invoker and the power I was using there I don't remember the name of that can hit two enemies, it just felt like I was proving a crappy amount of extra damage, and not actually doing anything useful. Sure, I eventually burned through all my encounter powers and dailies in the second encounter, but none of it felt particularly effective in the end.

Maybe I just don't 'get' the class and its role as well as I get Swordmage and its role. The Swordmage didn't feel as effective the second time until later in the second encounter when the guy playing her seemed to get a feel for her and started using Booming Blade instead of the other at-will. I can't say I ever got a feel for the Invoker. It wasn't 'Oh, here's this and this and OK, if I do that...', it was 'Oh, here's a bunch of powers that I don't really see anything to do anything with other than use them if they ever become useful.'

More importantly, the class didn't actually feel like anything. I wasn't seeing the point. Swordmage, hey, gish who punishes people for not attacking him(Well her). Invoker... Uh... Does this dress I'm wearing make me look fat? I spent five hours playing the thing and still had no idea what its schtick was supposed to be, other than 'guy who wears a dress and throws divine magic missile around and occasionally gives stuff status effects. If his allies aren't in the way and he can actually hit'.

Man, as much as they all got clumped together with the enemies do I wish the Swdmage would have had Swordburst.

 

[Jack99]

If those boards are any indication, then it's going to be a striker that will win this class survivor challenge.

Ranger (or Sorcerer)