D&D 4E 4e Clone − help create it!

[Zardnaar]

Right make it a lightning leash from a mage and you wouldn't blink twice but a very convincing trick and bring on the whine with all the trimmings.

Not going to mention they changed it to address whiners and made it an attack against will before the move (a change which made it more powerful according to some Char op folk but is predictable in ad better at dealing damage sort of way)

Lightning leash makes sense in a D&D world.

In world's where supernatural abilities exist it's no big deal if people use psionics, magic, the force etc.

It's an unavoidable mundane effect which is the problem. As I said if you like that sort of thing it's fine but that's why it gets mocked.

A flaming sword is no big deal in D&D land.

 

[Garthanos]

It's an unavoidable mundane effect which is the problem.

Yes in making the move after the attack made it more powerful more likely to kill a party after you gave it to every NPC because you are such a sweet person and think your NPCs are precious
and cannot be tricked by mere mundanes only godling mages get that.

The swordmage could have a lightning leash and explicitly have it target reflexes instead of will.

I also like Warlords whose inspiration enables the heroes to recover hit points in a way that they do not go away and leave the subject dying afterwards. I even like that it is a surgical choice.

 

[Garthanos]

If your D&D is a magical world where the fighter or rogue or warlord is intrinsically boringly unable to trick enemies in halfway reliable ways (cause that is all it was originally half way reliable) then I think 5e already does that...

 

[Garthanos]

I suspect this isnt doable in 5e
Guileful switch

 

[Garthanos]

There is a Warlords warning shout that enables you to help an ally out of the area of an attack as a reaction. Rather like a perfect saving throw.

 

[Garthanos]

I get a lot of use out of Warlord's Recovery, for instance.

Oh yes a very sweet trick I think it would involve granting an ally one of your superiority dice oror if there was a daily resource spent you and the ally get one more ... heck it could be even broader effect than that the ally could be situationally able to use any of your maneuvers

5e /has/ long & short rest 'pools,' though I agree that the latter is /not/ equivalent to Encounters.
It might be more in keeping with the 5e design ethos to define martial maneuvers entirely differently from the 'rest' pacing. Maneuvers could have a limit to usage based on whether the target has seen them before (this fight, or /ever/, for instance, for an Encounter/Daily divide), instead of how rested the character is.

This yes

Which is one reason the Warlord doesn't work as an archetype, to 5e Fighter is too deeply committed to all-DPR, all the time.

Off on a basic level, IMHO. If you can't think of high-level abilities a class should have, you don't have a handle on the class, yet, and you won't create a viable class, but another LF to be overshadowed by all the Qw's in 5e.

unfortunately possible

 

[Garthanos]

I think abilities that potentially affect/enable
the whole party are meat and drink for a warlord

not seeing the Battlemaster really having any of those.

 

[Garthanos]

Handing out sweet saving throws to your allies and instant spending hd
en-mass is pretty cool

 

[Yaarel]

Which is one reason the Warlord doesn't work as an archetype, to 5e Fighter is too deeply committed to all-DPR, all the time.

Off on a basic level, IMHO. If you can't think of high-level abilities a class should have, you don't have a handle on the class, yet, and you won't create a viable class, but another LF to be overshadowed by all the Qw's in 5e.

It seems to me, the Fighter is a great chassis for the Knight/Warlord. The Fighter has so much ‘uncluttered’ design space. Because the Fighter base design space guarantees excellent damage dealing, the design space for the archetype can focus exclusively group enhancement capabilities.



@Zardnaar, @Garthanos,

I found it easy to translate Come and Get It, into a 5e format and sensibility. It is also an example of how there is little difference between 4e Encounters and 4e Dailies.



Taunting Strike // Barrier Attack 3
Worldly Mind, Intimidation // Action
Target: foes in close
Versus: your Charisma versus each foes Charisma
Hit: Barrier: each foe moves into melee
Target: foes in melee
Attack: your per-turn attack
You taunt your foes, goading them to come attack you. When they reach you, you bust out to punish each of them. Each hostile in close range (30 feet) who can see or hear you must make a Charisma defense, or as a reaction move toward you, adjacent within melee range (5 feet) if able. Then you make one per-turn attack (such as using a weapon or a cantrip) against each hostile in melee.
[Compare 4e Come and Get It PH1]

 

[Garthanos]

I found it easy to translate Come and Get It, into a 5e format and sensibility. It is also an example of how there is little difference between 4e Encounters and 4e Dailies.

It is a 4e encounter just a pretty cool one sorry you were asking for dailies and my brain skipped.

Taunting Strike // Barrier Attack 3
Worldly Mind, Intimidation // Action
Target: foes in close
Versus: your Charisma versus each foes Charisma
Hit: each foe moves into melee
Target: foes in melee
Attack: per-turn attack
You taunt your foes, goading them to come attack you. When they reach you, you bust out to punish each of them. Each hostile in close range (30 feet) who can see or hear you must make a Charisma defense, or as a reaction move toward you, adjacent within melee range (5 feet) if able. Then you make one per-turn attack (such as weapon or cantrip) against each hostile in melee.
[Compare 4e Come and Get It PH1]

Note since Charisma is at best a secondary attribute for the fighter or even worse if you want it to be at all effective it is likely Charisma + 2 or 3 even that and/or a proficiency bonus (not sure) especially since you made it a roll for every every taunting - they smashed it together in 4e both to simplify and avoid problems like .1/2chance x 1/2 chance to taunt = 1/4, or even 2/3 chance to hit x 2/3 chance to taunt... is 4/9

Its very easy to hide cool stuff behind a barrier of over dicing them.

Basically that is a fine tuning error not saying it cannot be done though

(the three referencing approximate spell level right?)