Gentlegamer
Adventurer
I loved the original planar cosmology as a beautiful synthesis of mythology, literature, science-fiction, and other sources.
The new cosmology is fine, too.
The new cosmology is fine, too.
4e Cosmology Changes
- Thread starter Snoweel
- Start date
The Little Raven
First Post
Spatula said:
Having different ability score adjustments, cultural considerations, favored classes, and appearance traits means you're identical?
Mercule
Adventurer
I can appreciate that. But which elf?EATherrian said:
The problem is that the standard "elf" in D&D has been schizophrenic for a very long time. I've always pictured them being pretty much like the 4e eladrin and would be just keen to ditch the 4e "elf" and restore "eladrin" to their correct name. One of my players, though, is just the opposite. Since we both like elves (though far from nuts), WotC couldn't explicitly ditch either without somewhat irking one of us.
I don't really have a problem with two versions of some major races that are semi-based on long-standing genre archetypes. Elves have an ethereal, aloof, scholarly archetype and they have a woodsy, intuitive, spiritual archetype. Split it. Do the same for dwarves and their martial, mundane archetype and their magical, xenophobic archetype. That's what I did in my home brew.
ryryguy
First Post
generally like
I generally like the new cosmology.
Running a heavily planar campaign, currently on hiatus pending a convert to 4e, there are a few things from the new cosmology I will not take, mainly to remain consistent. Primarily, the campaign deals a lot with the separate Elemental Planes, in an orrery cosmology where the planes rotate around the Material with one being dominant at any given time. This is very important both for the campaign backstory/main arc and the player characters' experiences. But ok, no problem, I can keep them separate. In fact, having them collapse into an Elemental Chaos could be a perfect climax for the campaign, depending.
I have some more issues with changes to individual planar creatures. I'll need to keep some single-element elementals around. Yugoloths remain separate. A big pain will be genies, which are one of the main groups of antagonists for the game. The MM only has efreeti; also they are epic level challenges, which doesn't really fit with the previous events of the campaign where the party has defeated efreeti at level 9. Perhaps the MM efreeti will be the nobles and common genies will be high heroic into paragon level threats.
But that's pretty much all specific to my campaign conversion. Outside of that, the one thing I feel a little ambivalent about is the removal of the Ethereal. Basically it got split into the Feywild and Shadowfell. I have nothing against these per se, and in fact I like their flavor - they are less boring than the pure Ethereal, for sure. I guess I just liked the mechanics of the Ethereal which seem to be gone. Like, when an eladrin fey steps through the Feywild, he just teleports and the fact he's going through the Feywild is just flavor. There isn't any real allowance for a phase spider hanging out there to intercept him, or an ethereal solid barrier. (Not a huge deal, these things can of course be created with the DM wand if there is a need for them.)
Maybe it's just that there is no longer a "neutral" ethereal. For instance, the jann in 3e can use ethereal jaunt, which I see as showing their unique (for genies) tie to the Material plane. But would a 4e jann travel through the Feyworld or the Shadowfell? They don't seem particularly fey nor shadow but I guess I'll have to pick one.
I generally like the new cosmology.
Running a heavily planar campaign, currently on hiatus pending a convert to 4e, there are a few things from the new cosmology I will not take, mainly to remain consistent. Primarily, the campaign deals a lot with the separate Elemental Planes, in an orrery cosmology where the planes rotate around the Material with one being dominant at any given time. This is very important both for the campaign backstory/main arc and the player characters' experiences. But ok, no problem, I can keep them separate. In fact, having them collapse into an Elemental Chaos could be a perfect climax for the campaign, depending.
I have some more issues with changes to individual planar creatures. I'll need to keep some single-element elementals around. Yugoloths remain separate. A big pain will be genies, which are one of the main groups of antagonists for the game. The MM only has efreeti; also they are epic level challenges, which doesn't really fit with the previous events of the campaign where the party has defeated efreeti at level 9. Perhaps the MM efreeti will be the nobles and common genies will be high heroic into paragon level threats.
But that's pretty much all specific to my campaign conversion. Outside of that, the one thing I feel a little ambivalent about is the removal of the Ethereal. Basically it got split into the Feywild and Shadowfell. I have nothing against these per se, and in fact I like their flavor - they are less boring than the pure Ethereal, for sure. I guess I just liked the mechanics of the Ethereal which seem to be gone. Like, when an eladrin fey steps through the Feywild, he just teleports and the fact he's going through the Feywild is just flavor. There isn't any real allowance for a phase spider hanging out there to intercept him, or an ethereal solid barrier. (Not a huge deal, these things can of course be created with the DM wand if there is a need for them.)
Maybe it's just that there is no longer a "neutral" ethereal. For instance, the jann in 3e can use ethereal jaunt, which I see as showing their unique (for genies) tie to the Material plane. But would a 4e jann travel through the Feyworld or the Shadowfell? They don't seem particularly fey nor shadow but I guess I'll have to pick one.
The Little Raven
First Post
Spatula said:
Not in the 3.0 I've read.
Gray Elves had a +2 Int, -2 Str in addition to their +2 Dex, -2 Con. That's why they have 13s in both Dex and Int, and 8s in both Str and Con.
Wood Elves had a +2 Str, -2 Int in addition to their +2 Dex, -2 Con. That's why they have a 12 and 13 in Str and Dex, and an 8 and 9 in Con and Int. Favored class is ranger, not wizard.
Wild Elves had a +2 Dex, -2 Int in place of their +2 Dex, -2 Con. That's why they have a 13 in Dex, and a 9 in Int. Favored class is sorcerer, not wizard.
The Little Raven
First Post
Spatula said:
It says in the 3.0 DMG that in order use the subraces as player characters, you subtract 10 (if even) or 11 (if odd) to get the racial adjustments. This demonstrates that the various kinds of elves have different ability score adjustments than high elves.
I remember that explicitly because I was converting a 2nd Edition gray elf character over.
Whizbang Dustyboots
Gnometown Hero
I like how modular the new planes are. I'm expecting some new ones to show up as Astral Dominions in the 4E MoP this December. I'm hoping the Plane of Mirrors reappears as well.
I'm inserting the Beyond Countless Doorways cosmology into the 4E one, and beyond changing the Ethereal Sea to the Astral Sea, it's effortless.
I'm inserting the Beyond Countless Doorways cosmology into the 4E one, and beyond changing the Ethereal Sea to the Astral Sea, it's effortless.
Brennin Magalus
First Post
hong said:
I had not thought of that. You are, of course, correct. Incidentally, the most dangerous thing about the plane of fire is not the immense heat but having to walk across an endless expanse of d4 caltrops.
