4e Cosmology Changes

[hong]

Having more than just an elf to me is too much elf love. Maybe because I'm re-reading the Silmarillion (which stokes my Elf-hate. Go Morgoth!) I really feel it in this edition. I want to create a 4E world, but I don't like how connected to the Feywild the Eladrin are. Not sure if I'm just going to ditch them or sever them.

Read Three Hearts and Three Lions, and reimagine them as faeries.

 

[Fenes]

Read Three Hearts and Three Lions, and reimagine them as faeries.

No, better imagine the faeries killing the elves off and taking their stuff!

 

[Steely Dan]

Having more than just an elf to me is too much elf love.

I really felt it in 1st/2nd/3rd Ed, where there was an elf for every day of the year.

At least we just have 3, well I guess 4, but that's better than a chartreuse elf.

 

[Arnwyn]

Just want to know your opinions on the 4e changes to the D&D cosmology.

Utter crap, for our group. Much prefer the Great Wheel.

Glad others might like it, though.

 

[Amadeus Windfall]

I love the new cosmology; it keeps the best bits of the Great Wheel while smashing the planes together to make them more interesting and simple. I had planned on using a very simply cosmology in my campaign setting, with only one plane besides the world, but when I read my 4E DMG, I changed my mind completely. I can see why people who are attached to the Great Wheel might not like it, but personally I like the more generalised approach to planes.

 

[Spatula]

I really felt it in 1st/2nd/3rd Ed, where there was an elf for every day of the year.

Wha? If you look at the core books in 1e/2e, which is all we have available for 4e right now, how was there an elf available for every day of the year? That came in supplements, which there will be for 4e, as well.

 

[Mokona]

Just want to know your opinions on the 4e changes to the D&D cosmology.

So what do you think? Does it seem tidier? More internally consistent? More of the same?

Tell me I'll be able to use the 4e cosmology straight out of the tin.

Yes, you'll be able to use it "out of the can".

Dungeon & Dragons' 4th edition cosmology feels more like fantasy and less like "Plane(t)s in Space" or "Tears in the Fabric of Reality". Sailing the celestial seas is way more in-theme for fantasy than Jumpgates to Sigil.

The Astral plane has always created problems with 3-D movement. Putting the celestial domains in a seas reduces the experience to a 2-D plane like the surface of the Earth. Fantasy characters and modern players are all more familiar with surface movement.

 

[Zil]

Yes, you'll be able to use it "out of the can".

Dungeon & Dragons' 4th edition cosmology feels more like fantasy and less like "Plane(t)s in Space" or "Tears in the Fabric of Reality". Sailing the celestial seas is way more in-theme for fantasy than Jumpgates to Sigil.

I would say that the portals in planescape are nothing at all like jump gates. They are closer to the portals in "The Time Bandits" or I suppose Pullman's "The Subtle Knife".

The Astral plane has always created problems with 3-D movement. Putting the celestial domains in a seas reduces the experience to a 2-D plane like the surface of the Earth. Fantasy characters and modern players are all more familiar with surface movement.

I must have missed that. I didn't know that the 4E astral sea was flattened to 2 dimensions. Somehow that is disappointing, but I could work with it if I had to.

 

[El Ravager]

I just want to call it utter crap that people are calling this utter crap and then backing off as if that isn't totally dismissive of people who like it.

I mean, it is like if there was a piece of sh*t on a table and you said, "hey that's a piece of sh*t. I'm not going to eat it, but you can eat it if you want." I mean, nobody is going to eat the sh*t. And if they did, its not a matter of taste, if someone eats the sh*t they are messed up and you know it.

I just don't think "it's utter crap" (or absolute crap, or whatever) is the anywhere near the same thing as "it doesn't work for me/I don't like it, but it's cool if someone else does". Its totally dismissive of something. Which is fine if that is how you feel. I just think people are well within their rights not to pretend they are the same.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Wha? If you look at the core books in 1e/2e/3e, which is all we have available for 4e right now, how was there an elf available for every day of the year? That came in supplements, which there will be for 4e, as well.

Well exactly. If 4E doesn't have "Elf of the day" syndrome within a year or three, I'll be extremely surprised. Hell, my wife, new to TT games with 4E (her first TT RPG was 4E a few days ago, she enjoyed it a lot), said when she looked at the PHB races "Why are there so many elves?", so you certainly don't have to a D&D or TT RPG veteran to feel that way.

What 4E is clearly missing is a little faerie with wings race. Why they didn't kick halflings to the curb in favour of this, I dunno. I'm not kidding about this, either.

Anyway getting off-topic, I like 4E's cosmology more than the great wheel in the sense that it's mostly just better for a fantasy game, but it's problematic in a couple of regards:

1) It "locks in" the early history of the cosmos more than previous games. First the primordials (who are BAD) and this that and the other happened, then came the gods (who are GOOD) and this that and the other happened. It's all very neat and precise, but it's just a bit TOO neat and precise for my liking. Neither history nor myth is never as neat and precise as 4E has it. It's very, and I'm sorry if this sounds perjorative, "American 21st century", and surprisingly free of "interesting exceptions" or other bits of grit around which you might form pearls.

You're free to ignore it, of course, but then, you always were. I dunno, for some people it may be better. I just found the combination of "neat-ness" and "This is how it happened" not "This is what some claim" to be a bit "bleh".

2) The names oh god the names. I know, I know, trying not to confuse people, helps if it's trademark-able and so on, but oh god "The Shadowfell"? The "Feywild". Give me a break. I know you people can do better. It seems like they were real "Middle of the Road" choices, and really lacking in mythic resonance.

Still, overall improvement and they managed to keep Sigil? I guess it's a winner for me.