4e Cosmology Changes

[Viktyr Gehrig]

I like the new cosmology. To me, it makes a good bit more sense for the cosmology of a sword-and-sorcery style fantasy setting-- compared to, say, the Great Wheel-- and it still leaves plenty of room for planeswalkers and mystical adventures.

Planescape is Planescape, and wouldn't be the same without the Great Wheel. But Forgotten Realms has its own cosmology, Eberron has its own cosmology, and reaching back, Dark Sun had its own cosmology. Which is really as it should have been all along.

Honestly... if I were to run a Planescape game now, D&D 4e would be a good long way away from my first choice. It would definitely fall after the majority of other systems I would consider for it... including 3.5, 2e, and Alternity.

 

[Calico_Jack73]

Personally I like the changes.

I like that Demons now exemplify the "Chaos" in "Chaotic Evil". They don't tempt, they don't wheel-and-deal, they exist to destroy as much as they can before they are destroyed themselves and reform in the Abyss.

I like that the Succubus is now a Devil. Makes more sense that a tempter be a "Plotter & Planner".

I'm not totally thrilled that Asmodeus is now an evil god. I preferred him being an independent power.

I like that Tharizdon is the god responsible for creating the Abyss and that touching the shard of infinite evil was what drove him utterly mad.

Obviously these changes only reflect the "Core" D&D World. Any campaign settings can present their own take on that setting's cosmology which renders the changes to the "Core" irrelevant.

 

[med stud]

I like the Feywild and Shadowfell. I like finite planes. I like that the Astral Sea is visible from the Prime material. It gives the setting a mythological feel that the previous model lacked.

The Blood War is gone, thank heavens. Demons and devils aren't the same creatures in different teams.

All in all, I like the new cosmology.

 

[Rhianni32]

I really like this system.

1: We already have the great wheel. Its been done for several editions. Now we have a new cosmology example. GMs have more choices in how to setup their cosmology.

2: How much time is actually spent away from the material plane? Is it really a deal break for a system? All the rules really are just flavor besides how does the plane affect you and what creatures live there. They never went into the historical advancement and society mannerisms. Just place fire archons in the elemental plane of fire and add some ongoing damage 5 or 10. You can place each set of gods into a corner of the Astral sea and have their power and force of will reshape their area to reflect their traditional pre-4ed plane.


3: More mentally manageable. Ok so there are 20+ realms/planes. Each are infinitely huge. Most have multiple layers which are as large as a planet. The abyss has an infinite amount of layers. Just how much room are these gods needing to live in? And how much room do GMs need to run a campaign in?

 

[Steely Dan]

At the moment the changes seem decidedly destructive

You keep saying that (destructive), just because you are not keen on something does not mean it is destructive.

Change does not equal destruction.

Look, I know you are a huge Planescape buff, I am too, I have been planar obsessed since I got into this wacky game 20 or so years ago, in fact, I have been running a Planescape campaign, fortnightly, for the past 3 years, but that doesn't mean there isn't room for new visions for a D&D cosmology.

And yes, people are right; there is a lot of contrived crap in the Great Wheel simply to force symmetry (alignment etc).

 

[Steely Dan]

and reaching back, Dark Sun had its own cosmology.

Actually, in Dragon Kings it implied that Athas was on an Alternate Material plane (still the great wheel, though, and all of that), but in the Spacefarer's Companion, it implied that Athas was on the Prime Material Plane (Spelljammer) but was in a closed crystal sphere.

 

[EATherrian]

I'm ambivalent about the new cosmology. The Great Wheel made perfect sense to me, maybe from all my years of reading Moorcock and the fact that I love symmetry. The new cosmology is OK, there's a little too much elf love so far in this edition, so much I'm starting to wonder if it was ghost written by Tolkien. I'm not a fan of what I see as arbitrary changes i.e. the loss of the Eryines and the replacement of Succubus as a devil. Maybe that's because I think they screwed the alignment system; either keep the nine, have three or have none. I'm keeping the Succubus a demon, and I'll create an Eryines back as a devil, so that's not hard but it makes me like the Core Cosmology(tm) less at having to fix things to keep them right (imho).

 

[Steely Dan]

there's a little too much elf love so far in this edition

I would say there's less elf-love than previous editions; I mean, did we really need Biker Elves…?

 

[EATherrian]

I would say there's less elf-love than previous editions; I mean, did we really need Biker Elves…?

Having more than just an elf to me is too much elf love. Maybe because I'm re-reading the Silmarillion (which stokes my Elf-hate. Go Morgoth!) I really feel it in this edition. I want to create a 4E world, but I don't like how connected to the Feywild the Eladrin are. Not sure if I'm just going to ditch them or sever them.

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

there's a little too much elf love so far in this edition, so much I'm starting to wonder if it was ghost written by Tolkien.

I feel like elves have some more interesting things going on this time around. We have a split, but it's significant. I could never get behind all the wood elves and grey elves and sun elves and moon elves and aquatic elves and all that silliness. We'll probably get more of those silly races as the edition ages, but the core racial concepts are strong, and the outliers are easy to ignore.

Back to the cosomology: it's good. If you want to use it as written, it's very simple and elegant. If you want to rip it from the implied setting and insert the Great Wheel or something of your own invention, that's also easy.

This is exactly the kind of thing that should be in the core books: generic, useful, and (if desired) easily removed.