4e D&D GSL Live

[pemerton]

I have a friend in law school

<snip>

The 4E rules are governed by copyright. They are not patentable

<snip>

Therefore, unless the 4E rules are actually patented, then I see no legal action that can be taken against anyone for creating a software app that inherently uses those rules without re-publishing them.

After thinking about it, I would guess that you could not use trademarked names/proper-nouns in the software application (names of monsters, races, powers, etc). But I'm pretty sure that as long as the names are not trademarked, then their use does not otherwise constitute a copyright violation if used in isolation.

How the app handled descriptive text (names and other identifiers) would seem to be the biggest issue.

I teach in a law school (in Australia, not the US) but not in IP. Nevertheless, I'll give you some thoughts.

In the second quoted paragraph you don't take your thought quite far enough: as Robertsconley pointed out above, the issue would as much be the extent to which that text breached copyright as opposed to simply wrongly used WoTC's trademarks.

Furthermore, I don't know that it's true that the 4e rules can't be patented although, as far as I know, they have not been.

But in any event, it seems possible that one might design an application that could run a 4e game (though even then the code might potentially be derivative of WoTC's copyrighted text - I don't know enough about either coding or the US law of derivative works) but be extremely constrained in the permissible textual output that it might give: character sheets, power descriptions, monster statblocks etc would all at least potentially be in breach of WoTC's copyright.

 

[Orcus]

If a publisher converts a product line from OGL to GSL, and then the agreement is terminated - for whatever reason - then section 6.1 will still be in effect. So the publisher could not then revert a GSL converted product line back to the OGL.

This section may add fuel to the conspiracy theories. But this section may also be one that holds some third party publishers back. If there is a successful brand that the publisher has already built, will they want to tie that brand into 4E? Because once they do, they can't fall back to the strength of that brand if the agreement is terminated for any reason.

...

But there are a couple of points that I think should give any publisher some serious food for thought before signing on.

...

It should be interesting to see what products are announced in the next several months.

That first issue you raise of converting and not being able to convert back is one I am reviewing myself.

That is one of the questions I want to make sure to have a CLEAR and PUBLIC answer on.

If Wizards wants us to use this license then they should (and I suspect will) provide answers to many of these questions.

Clark

 

[Orcus]

I dont want too sound too grouchy on this. I believe we were close to having NO third party support for 4E, so the fact Scott and Linae and others got the GSL done at all is awesome. I am thrilled to have the chance to support 4E. Now I have to decide if the license provided will do the job I want it to do.

Many, I'm sure, will misinterpret this evaluation and question process we are all going to go through as complaining and looking a gift horse in the mouth. That, of course, is not the case at all. Third party support has an awesome heritage of community discussion and dissection of licenses and changes.

So none of my comments or thoughts about what is or isnt or should have been or shouldnt have been in the license or calls for clarification or answers to questions should be considered as criticism or negativity. This is just the process of community discussion of this public license.

Clark

 

[Ydars]

I am a little disappointed with the language some of this is written in; it is quite defensive and, as Clark says, about as welcoming as a man wielding a big stick. Welcome to legalise I guess.

It will also annoy many people that WoTC think they have the right and need to put "d4" and "d20" into the SRD; I mean COME ON!!

Looks to me like alot of the "interesting" bits of 4E have not made it into the SRD; no Feywild, no Shadowfell, no beholders etc. This is a shame as it will actually hinder compatibility with 3PP products; very short-sighted in my view, but I guess I understand why (sigh).

I think the most problematic thing is this clause about "once its GSL you can't go back to OGL" for a particular product line coupled with the "we can pull the plug when we feel like it" bit of this license. I REALLY can't see many 3PPs who are doing well now going for this.

 

[Ydars]

I don't mean to seem annoyed either; it is a step forward that this is out-there and we can ask questions. Some of it is very positive, but I do feel sorry for the people hoping to make computer products for 4E; and yet this was SO predictable.

 

[see]

The interesting thing that for a product that is completely OGL (and there are only a few) that the original company couldn't publish the product after conversion but a third party could.

Yes. First thing I thought on reading this was:

"Wow. So, if Necromancer Games makes a Tome 4e, they have to permanently withdraw the OGL version. But, that won't make it unavailable; since it's basically all Open Game Content, anybody could publish and sell their own."

 

[BSF]

I dont want too sound too grouchy on this. I believe we were close to having NO third party support for 4E, so the fact Scott and Linae and others got the GSL done at all is awesome. I am thrilled to have the chance to support 4E. Now I have to decide if the license provided will do the job I want it to do.

Many, I'm sure, will misinterpret this evaluation and question process we are all going to go through as complaining and looking a gift horse in the mouth. That, of course, is not the case at all. Third party support has an awesome heritage of community discussion and dissection of licenses and changes.

So none of my comments or thoughts about what is or isnt or should have been or shouldnt have been in the license or calls for clarification or answers to questions should be considered as criticism or negativity. This is just the process of community discussion of this public license.

Clark

Hey Clark,
I just want to say thank you for all of your forthright postings. I hope your statements won't be misconstrued, though I fear you may be correct.

I don't like the GSL the way I liked the OGL. But I am just a customer, not a publisher. I can imagine where some of the changes and clauses might have grown from within WotC. But it feels kind of weird. More like they want to protect themselves from the community rather than embracing the community.

Maybe I will feel differently after more discussion has occurred? *shrug* Even if I don't, it should still be interesting to see what comes of all this.

But still, I wanted to thank you for facilitating as much discussion as you have over the years. As a guy that has played D&D for a could of decades, I appreciate what you have done.

 

[Orcus]

I don't mean to seem annoyed either; it is a step forward that this is out-there and we can ask questions. Some of it is very positive, but I do feel sorry for the people hoping to make computer products for 4E; and yet this was SO predictable.

I'm not sure that there was actually anyone mainstream that had any reasonable belief they would be able to make computer products for 4E.

That was a no brainer in my mind.

 

[HyrumOWC]

I'm not sure that there was actually anyone mainstream that had any reasonable belief they would be able to make computer products for 4E.

That was a no brainer in my mind.

Hey Clark,

What are your thoughts on section 11.4? To me it looks like WotC can sue you for any reason, and whether or not they win, or the suit is dismissed, you still pay for their costs, which are solely determined by them.

Is this a correct reading?

Hyrum.

 

[Angellis_ater]

I was sceptical to begin with, but the 6.1 clause (no GSL->OGL reversion even if the license is revoked or terminated) is the big break for me. At this point, I am NOT feeling confident that Dreamscarred Press will be able to release ANY material for 4E, since we never know when WotC will pull the plug on us and we have a shitload of useless PDFs/Books.

Unless my partner comes up with an awesome scheme, all I can say is that I am, personally, disappointed.