4e D&D GSL Live

[TimeOut]

So, where the psionics be? Has this question already been answered? I'd go wading the WotC forums for an answer but ... I'd rather not.

Seems they got cut.

 

[tovokas]

Well, that pretty much kills the idea of a useful module, doesn't it. I mean, it doesn't matter how awesome you adventure is, how well written, if you have to say, "See MM page XX for goblin stats." So, you either have to create everything from scratch or just reference the Core?

I agree, if this actually is the case.

Keep on the Shadowfells' best feature is that most encounters sit nicely in a two page spread - with pretty much all the info you need to run it right there. Previously, similar things were created using 3.5 stat blocks: it speeds up play dramatically, saves wear and tear on your books.

It's difficult to imagine them expecting DM's to plow back and forth through all the source books during a fight... haven't had to do that in years. If true it would constitute a big step backwards.

 

[Rechan]

I agree, if this actually is the case.

Keep on the Shadowfells' best feature is that most encounters sit nicely in a two page spread - with pretty much all the info you need to run it right there. Previously, similar things were created using 3.5 stat blocks: it speeds up play dramatically, saves wear and tear on your books.

It's difficult to imagine them expecting DM's to plow back and forth through all the source books during a fight... haven't had to do that in years. If true it would constitute a big step backwards.

I agree. However, as pointed out on the last page, if you make any modifications to a stat block (for instance, leveling it), then you can print it.

 

[JDJblatherings]

I agree. However, as pointed out on the last page, if you make any modifications to a stat block (for instance, leveling it), then you can print it.

just not the monster special ability descriptions, those aren't up for grabs.

 

[Henry]

I think your just asking for a lawsuit if you do that. Unlike 1e, there is a reasonable license for this, so it's not like it's a "dead product".

Based on Ryan D's infamous "How Wizards can get rid of the OGL" on an Industry List, and considering how his other predictions came true, I fully expect somebody who tries that to be made an example of.

Funny enough, it could be done, I think, or at least to about 75% of the system, without legal consequence, because all the components needed are already Open Game Content, and as long as you were to go out of your way to avoid terminology from the GSL, or anything not based on an exact mathematical formula, you could do it.

I'm not planning to do it, because I have no monetary or idealistic reason to do so, nor am I a gambling man, but looking back over the SRD, and various third party products that Mike Mearls has worked on, the core solutions that 4e provide are already in place.

 

[Alzrius]

I think your just asking for a lawsuit if you do that. Unlike 1e, there is a reasonable license for this, so it's not like it's a "dead product".

Based on Ryan D's infamous "How Wizards can get rid of the OGL" on an Industry List, and considering how his other predictions came true, I fully expect somebody who tries that to be made an example of.

I seriously doubt that. There's little to no chance that WotC would win such a suit; their only viable tactic would be trying to win by attrition (e.g. the other guy's money for legal fees dries up first). A ruling against WotC would leave rock-solid precedent for such material, and leave that door wide open.

There's a reason they never sent a cease & desist letter to the people who released OSRIC, despite them saying they'd take it down immediately if they ever received one.

 

[gribble]

So all monsters in modules will be somewhat unique I'm presuming just so the publisher can include all statblocks for DM convenience.

That was my take on it too. Rather than driving sales of the MM, I see this license as quickly invalidating it. If 90% of the modules on the market (i.e.: all those not written by WotC) use entirely unique monsters (or perhaps monsters compiled/published in a 3rd party product with more generous licensing terms), then what's the point of buying the MM?

Ditto for new Races/Classes - if you're not playing one of the ones defined in the PHB, you really won't need a copy of the PHB because everything you need to use that race/class (all powers, abilities, etc) will have to be in the 3rd party book! At least spellcasting classes still needed the 3.x PHB...

 

[JohnRTroy]

Funny, Ryan also predicted that as well.

And I didn't think you wouldn't win, but I think WoTC will fiercely protect themselves.

I noticed also in the GSL that they are working hard to prevent anybody from thinking people that this game is "derived" from the older versions. The 3e OGL had references to it being based on the creation of Gygax and Arneson in the license, the 4e ignores all prior versions and just give credit to the new design team.

I'll bet they argue that it's "not a derivative work" in any court proceedings.

 

[DaveMage]

Can they just start a new line of modules that's called something besides Dungeon Crawl Classics and still be safe?

Sure - but then they lose the name recognition of their DCC brand.

 

[JohnRTroy]

I seriously doubt that. There's little to no chance that WotC would win such a suit; their only viable tactic would be trying to win by attrition (e.g. the other guy's money for legal fees dries up first). A ruling against WotC would leave rock-solid precedent for such material, and leave that door wide open.

True, but a ruling for WoTC would set precedent that games CAN be copyrighted, and also I don't believe they will let the OGL be used to rip off all their property if they decide not to use it anymore (as well as completely change the game system so it has little resemblance to the older game).

There's a reason they never sent a cease & desist letter to the people who released OSRIC, despite them saying they'd take it down immediately if they ever received one.

I believe that the reason is not legal but "we don't care about the old forms of the games, we don't support it". It's a bigger situation with 4e however.