D&D 4E 4E d20 Superheroes - I want that too!

[Guild Goodknife]

Didn't want to threadjack the d20 modern thread and i thought this would deserve it's own thread anyway, so let's talk about the first d20 Superheroes game using the 4E rules.
I think Superheroes shouldn't be reduce to a Epic tier in d20 modern but instead have it their own three tiers. Something like:
Heroic - Streetlevel (think Punisher, Watchmen, a rookie Spider-man, Batman Year one etc.)

Paragon - Nation wide threats (X-Men, Avengers, etc.)

Epic - World threatening dangers from space (Justice League, All Star Superman, etc.)

or something along those lines. Also, the idea of different Powersources and Combat Roles lends itself perfectly to superheroic teamplay.
Btw: I've read in a thread that WotC owns the license for the Marvel Superhero RPG. Is this a fact? Does someone know more about that?
Discuss

 

[Guild Goodknife]

Just a thought: The mechanic of at wil, encounter and per day powers would be great for a Superhero game because they provide answers for several questions - why doesn't Superman just blast any nonflying villian with his heatvision till he's down? Or freeze them with his coldbreath? Per day powers
What is the limit of Batmans gadgetry? He can use several once per encounter...and so forth.
It's abstract but it sure does fit with the comics.

 

[Boarstorm]

I think I'd have the same problem with a 4E-based d20 Supers game as I do with all the 3.X Supers games -- the tracking of superhuman attributes (strength, for example) just seems... off.

If you do it through ability scores, it breaks a hit point system very quickly. If you do it through a feat, it breaks my suspension of disbelief ("What do you mean, I can pull a skyscraper out of the ground and throw it halfway across town, but I only get a +4 damage modifier?!").

I dunno, maybe one of the later systems had an elegant way of handling it that would port (or could be adapted) to 4E play. I kind-of gave up pretty quickly on the concept, so I can't claim to be an expert on d20 rulesets.

If there IS a way to solve that logical paradox, I'd be more than interested in pulling the spandex out of the closet again.

In the meantime, I tend to pull out the old Marvel Super Heroes (FASERIP) whenever my Supers itch needs scratching.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I think I'd have the same problem with a 4E-based d20 Supers game as I do with all the 3.X Supers games -- the tracking of superhuman attributes (strength, for example) just seems... off.

If you do it through ability scores, it breaks a hit point system very quickly. If you do it through a feat, it breaks my suspension of disbelief ("What do you mean, I can pull a skyscraper out of the ground and throw it halfway across town, but I only get a +4 damage modifier?!").

Ok, i would actually do it with attributes. Its the same with titans in D&D. they also have a finite strength score...

Actually with minion rules there is no problem at all... in a super hero vs superhero fight, you can use usual attributes... (or as igh as you like) and all normal people are treated as minions... dying when you hit them and want them to die from it...

 

[Burke]

Btw: I've read in a thread that WotC owns the license for the Marvel Superhero RPG. Is this a fact? Does someone know more about that?
Discuss

Hasbro has the Marvel toy and game license. You can find the press release on the net. It was signed back in 2006 and went into effect at the beginning of 2007. So, that license probably covers the ability to do a RPG, and if anyone at Hasbro was going to do an RPG obviously it would be WotC, so there's been fan speculation about that. But having said that, I'm not sure anyone at WotC has ever commented on the license or a Marvel RPG, and if they have any plans for it they haven't publicly discussed it.

I'd like to see a 4e d20 Modern Superhero game too, especially I believe it was stated the reason WotC dropped the d20 Spectaculars product was because the developers got pulled from it to work on 4e. Since 4e cost us a generic WotC superheroes product in the 3e era, the least they could do this time around is create one.

 

[Dr. Halflight]

Super-Hero Gaming is my first love (yeah it was hard going from Champions 4E to AD&D 2E).

Things about 4E that we've seen that I think work:

1) I agree that At Will, Per Encounter, Per Milestone, Per Day are good options to emulate the genre.

2) Minions are ESSENTIAL to Super Hero Stories

3) I don't think Attributes need to emulate Super Strength, that's why we have Powers. If I'm a brick then at I have an Powers with a Strength Bonus to hit & a Better Strength Bonus to Damage (One of the best parts of M&M 2E was removing Str & Dex from BAB)

4) I think the small Damage amounts work better (speeding up play) & can work very well within its own genre. Why do Supers Games have to have Huge Dice Pools or Large Damage Bases? To balance it next to "real life" or non-supers. So keep At Will doing 1W, Encounter dowing 2W & Day doing 3W. Lets keep Supers combat fast.

 

[malladin]

Any d20 based supers is going to have a hard time competing with M&M 2E. For example nothing being talked here can't already be done within its rules.

 

[Andor]

I'm genuinely puzzled. Why would you want a 4e supers system? Given that we haven't even seen 4e yet what about what we know so far makes you think that it has something to offer to the supers genre that is superior to what it already out there?

Class based systems are famously unsuited for supers games, although there is Heros Unlimited if that floats your boat. There are already games covering everything from the grim and bloody Godlike to over the top systems like the ancient Marvel FASERIP system and systems that cover everything in between like Hero and the Tri-system. There's even M&M if gaming to you demands a d20.

I'm baffled.

 

[Shado]

Modern should be seeing an update come late '09 or in 2010. (Seems like forever.)

d20 Spectaculars was to be the official WotC hero setting for Modern, but was placed on the back burner about the time development of SAGA and 4e started up.

It's been hinted that it could be revisited for an updated Modern rule set. So there's decent odds of it happening.

 

[Felon]

Well, the first thought that occurs to me is that Mutants & Masterminds does such a bang up job that a 4e supers game wouldn't improve upon it much. M&M already did away with iterative attacks, which is the big combat innovation from 4e that I think is worthwhile.

M&M also has a better way of handling powers that don't get used all the time: hero points and power stunts.

We won't be seeing a Marvel supers RPG from WotC for one simple reason: Heroclix. If WotC wanted to release a supers RPG, they would want a line of minis to go with it.

I think Superman doesn't burn people with heat vision because burning people is a little heavy-handed.