4E debut angst - more so than 3E?
- Thread starter Mercurius
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Wisdom Penalty
First Post
You know, my latest post isn't exactly true. What is different now is the negativity focused on certain persons.
Before, those who didn't want to change 1e-2e or 2e-3e complained loudly to be sure, but their complaints were mainly directed at the company (TSR, WotC) and not their fellow gamers.
Unfortunately, this most recent edition change has resulted in some rather caustic and bitter personal attacks. One need look no further than Ari Marmell (Mouseferatu) and how he was castigated (esp. on the Paizo boards) for simply stating he liked the new edition. Suddenly someone's opinion is questioned, the person is verbally attacked, and accusations of dishonesty and being a schill begin to swirl.
It was, and is, asinine.
Same goes with reviews that we see. Whether it's positive or negative for 4E, everyone seems to think the writer is part of some great conspiracy against them - if he or she doesn't share their viewpoint.
Asinine, as I said. And quite sad. Hopefully that's gone away when we hit 4e -> 5e, and hopefully that doesn't happen for a decade or more. I don't think my heart can take it.
Cheers,
Wisdumb P.
Before, those who didn't want to change 1e-2e or 2e-3e complained loudly to be sure, but their complaints were mainly directed at the company (TSR, WotC) and not their fellow gamers.
Unfortunately, this most recent edition change has resulted in some rather caustic and bitter personal attacks. One need look no further than Ari Marmell (Mouseferatu) and how he was castigated (esp. on the Paizo boards) for simply stating he liked the new edition. Suddenly someone's opinion is questioned, the person is verbally attacked, and accusations of dishonesty and being a schill begin to swirl.
It was, and is, asinine.
Same goes with reviews that we see. Whether it's positive or negative for 4E, everyone seems to think the writer is part of some great conspiracy against them - if he or she doesn't share their viewpoint.
Asinine, as I said. And quite sad. Hopefully that's gone away when we hit 4e -> 5e, and hopefully that doesn't happen for a decade or more. I don't think my heart can take it.
Cheers,
Wisdumb P.
Mercurius
Legend
Wisdom Penalty said:
Did you transform into a sheep with that last "bah"?
Don't let anyone fool you that the negativity is any better or worse than it was with those other editions changes. People just seem to think their opinion matters more now that they have the internet to facilitate whining and babbling. Yours truly is not immune to this egotism, mind you.
LOL, no doubt.
I don't remember any upheaval when 2E came out. Most people in my group (which was really the intersection of about 3 large campaign groups that had some but not total overlap; there were 10 players in the campaign I played in) seemed fine with 2E (I joined this group about 2 years after 2E came out, though). I remember some guys (who kept playing 2E) decided to put together a 1E campaign that was geared for evil and neutral characters (so assassins and half-orcs could be played) but it wasn't really a rejection of 2E so much as merely a different option.
Everything was so cross-compatible that it really didn't matter much. You could run virtually any 1E module with 2E and not really notice any problems. Any differences would be too small to notice.
Everything was so cross-compatible that it really didn't matter much. You could run virtually any 1E module with 2E and not really notice any problems. Any differences would be too small to notice.
Dice4Hire
First Post
I started in 1E withthe blue and red boxes, and have happily switched over every time since then. For me, moving to the hardbacks was the smae game (I was very new then) and there was no angst. I was only playing with my brother at that time, and he had no angst either.
Going form 1E to 2E was much anticipated nad looked forward to, as I saw the changes in character detail and generation far more favorably. I was bored with vanilla rogue competing against vanilla rogue, and I wentto skills and pwoers for the same reason. Going to 3.0 was also \highly anticipated, as I was tired of 2E's restrictions and wanted mroe detail in t\my character. Some of the changes brought trouble, I will admit, but I enjoyed 3.0 and 3.5 quite a bit, though I too complained about the new 3.5. Luckily I have enough money to spend on stuff like this that it did not matter much.
But now, going to 4E it is the hardest change. I love 3.5's complexity and depth, and there is so much to do inteh ruleset, enough to do for years to come.
But I also like 4E, though I do nto dconsider it 1E-3.5E D&D, but a new branch off the tree. However, I can see 4E will expand greatly inteh future and become a better game, so I am looking forward to it. I will play both 3.5 and 4E for th forseeable future.
Going form 1E to 2E was much anticipated nad looked forward to, as I saw the changes in character detail and generation far more favorably. I was bored with vanilla rogue competing against vanilla rogue, and I wentto skills and pwoers for the same reason. Going to 3.0 was also \highly anticipated, as I was tired of 2E's restrictions and wanted mroe detail in t\my character. Some of the changes brought trouble, I will admit, but I enjoyed 3.0 and 3.5 quite a bit, though I too complained about the new 3.5. Luckily I have enough money to spend on stuff like this that it did not matter much.
But now, going to 4E it is the hardest change. I love 3.5's complexity and depth, and there is so much to do inteh ruleset, enough to do for years to come.
But I also like 4E, though I do nto dconsider it 1E-3.5E D&D, but a new branch off the tree. However, I can see 4E will expand greatly inteh future and become a better game, so I am looking forward to it. I will play both 3.5 and 4E for th forseeable future.
Kichwas
Half-breed
3E's launch used the net to its advantage, 4E's launch has been hurt by the net.
Aside from any other concerns about the systems themselves... 3E had a masterful internet launch, and 4E's was a pure mess.
When 3E was in buildup stage, it "suffered" from all kinds of leaks. This website we're on right now was created by Eric Noah as a place dedicated to these leaks. The leaks were all the right things to get fans riled up and interested.
Fans felt involved. WotC community reps and writers of the books and all sorts of other employees were all over forums doing "damage control" about the leaks in ways that actually leaked more info, of just the right flavor, to let us think they were on "our side" and were "listening and making changes" based on forum discussions here and elsewhere.
4E looked a lot more pushed out. WotC felt like a cold entity telling us how it was going to be, leaks were very few, and a lot of the build up was done with books in stores we were expected to buy. When there finally was a notable leak, that pre-press PDF, it was rather late, without much comment, and too much info in one shot. It didn't serve to help matters. The release of 4E just did not feel fan-focused. Rather, it felt more mass-media, but also somewhat confusing as to just what the plan was. But the fanbase today is also much more wired in than it used to be - the way 4E was launched would have gone unoticed and maybe even worked well in 2000, but in 2008, the only way to launch something as fan-driven as DnD is the way 3E did it in 2000.
Aside from any other concerns about the systems themselves... 3E had a masterful internet launch, and 4E's was a pure mess.
When 3E was in buildup stage, it "suffered" from all kinds of leaks. This website we're on right now was created by Eric Noah as a place dedicated to these leaks. The leaks were all the right things to get fans riled up and interested.
Fans felt involved. WotC community reps and writers of the books and all sorts of other employees were all over forums doing "damage control" about the leaks in ways that actually leaked more info, of just the right flavor, to let us think they were on "our side" and were "listening and making changes" based on forum discussions here and elsewhere.
4E looked a lot more pushed out. WotC felt like a cold entity telling us how it was going to be, leaks were very few, and a lot of the build up was done with books in stores we were expected to buy. When there finally was a notable leak, that pre-press PDF, it was rather late, without much comment, and too much info in one shot. It didn't serve to help matters. The release of 4E just did not feel fan-focused. Rather, it felt more mass-media, but also somewhat confusing as to just what the plan was. But the fanbase today is also much more wired in than it used to be - the way 4E was launched would have gone unoticed and maybe even worked well in 2000, but in 2008, the only way to launch something as fan-driven as DnD is the way 3E did it in 2000.
Plane Sailing
Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
I think that talking about the level of angst regarding 4e launch vs 3e launch is very likely to end up with some virtual stone throwing and assertions about the way that 'other people think', so I'm afraid I'm going to be closing this thread for now.
Regards,
Regards,
- Status
