4E DM's Surprised By Players?

[helium3]

By this I mean, have any of your players suddenly shocked you with their never before seen tactical brilliance? Or stupidity? Anyone else surprised by sudden changes in the way your group "works" in a social sense?

I have this one player who is generally what the DMG calls a "watcher." In our 3E games, her characters didn't "shine" like some of the others because she wasn't interested in doing the whole "build" thing. In fact, some of the other players would get irritated at times because her non-build focused characters weren't as useful in tough encounters. They weren't "carrying their share of the weight."

But now, in 4E it suddenly becomes clear that she's the reigning tactical genius at the table. She's the one that's always suggesting the kooky but shockingly effective strategies. The build-monkeys, still cocky after having been the "alphas" for so long, haven't quite come to terms with their rapidly diminishing social status. In fact, I don't think they've quite realized that their time has come to an end.

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out over the next couple of games. Frankly, I'm surprised at how bad the BM's are at tactics. I had assumed that they would be as good at that sort of thing as they were at twinking their characters. Apparently, being able to memorize rules doesn't mean you're also good at applying them in dynamic situations.

 

[Particle_Man]

I think that instead of Character Optimization threads, it is likely that we shall (or maybe should) see Tactics Optimization threads. It is the new way of "winning".

 

[helium3]

I think that instead of Character Optimization threads, it is likely that we shall (or maybe should) see Tactics Optimization threads. It is the new way of "winning".

Yep. I'm actually kind of shocked at how much I like the change.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Apparently, being able to memorize rules doesn't mean you're also good at applying them in dynamic situations.

Yeah, it's a completely different skill set. You could win 3e through knowledge, book ownership and visiting the CharOp forum. You win 4e on the battlegrid.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Funny. I've yet to see if this is also true for my group.

But most of my group was always good at tactics - and also good power-gamers. We'll see how well I am actually at the tactical job once I get to play my Warlord.

I know one player that might never be really good at tactic, and his power-gaming character optimizations seems way to off rely on stopping to read his powers, spells or class abilities before the drawbacks appear. I don't know if it's intentional or if he just has so much trouble with using English rulebooks (even after 8 years). He has a certain habit of... cheating... but he also seems to be less capable in using a published adventure as effective as others DMs, so both might factor in...

In the end, the rest of the group will always be there to correct mistakes, intentional or unintentional ones.

 

[Dark Eternal]

...

 

[Orryn Emrys]

I actually noted a couple of weeks ago, after reading through the Warlord class description, that the idea might be well suited to one of my wife's long-standing character interests, a sort of rebuild of her 1st-Edition cavalier character from back in the 80s... and she knows nothing about tactics. After she read the class, she wanted to try it too. The characters' powers are so easy to use, it would be difficult to not perform brilliantly.

This is, incidentally, although a fascinating development, not necessarily something which endears me to the new ruleset.

 

[Wik]

Yeah, I like that change on 4e. There is a definite amount of tactical thinking involved in the game. Our own "watcher" has come out of her shell playing a rogue, now that she's the primary damage-dealer. Though, our build monkey is loving 4e, too - his kobold fighter owns the battlefield, due to his surprising amount of maneouverability.

In the other group I run, tactics come out, too. The warlord's "hit 'em again!" power makes things fun, and it's nice to see the fighter try to dominate the battlefield. Not to mention the rogue trying to get into a good position.

 

[hamishspence]

if true, good, Very good

Specifically, that battle is more about thinking than twinking.

I wonder how popular this more tactical feel will be? I personally like it.

 

[Scribble]

Yeah I've seen this as well... I really like it. Less time worrying about how to play the game, and more time focusing on how to play IN the game.