D&D 4E 4e Fantasy Backdrops Discussion

[jaldaen]

So I've been pondering what my next 4e project should be and I wanted to see what ENWorlders would like to see for 4e. My first project, the Auxiliary martial controller class is now in playtesting and currently being shopped around for possible publication. I also have another major project in the works, but I'm still waiting on the next GSL FAQ before starting it. As such, I've got a bit of free time and I'm looking to fill it up with a 4e side project.

So in Round 1, I asked ENworlders to come up with proposals for my next 4e Project. Ten proposals were made.

In Round 2, I asked ENWorlders to vote for the proposals they would most like to see me do as my next 4e Project.

In Round 3, I decided to settle on doing a Fantasy Backdrop book. I’m planning on using this book to design generic and unique adventure locations for use in any campaign (rope bridges, volcanic cavern, etc.).

Anyway, thread is meant to be a place where you can ask questions, make suggestions, and add comments about what fantasy backdrops you would like to see in the book and how you would like it organized (descriptions, rules, adventure hooks, sample encounters, etc.). I've been a member here for a long time and really want to allow ENWorlders to be involved in the process of creating this book.

Thanks for your help and I hope to hear from you soon.

 

[jaldaen]

In Round 3 a number of people made some interesting encounter suggestions and so I figured I'd repost them here for reference.

A trap or three for the outdoors. A type of nasty, round-by-round effect that can be rigged up in a forest by a bugbear or any other sort of woodsy-type trapsmith. The reason I say this is, traps can be built into walls (Blades that come out every round and sweep through squares, nozzles that blow flame, etc), but I can't think of a good multi-round outdoor trap beyond "Pit" or "Snare". So, someone doing the thinking for me would be real nice.

I'd also like some more molds/fungi drawn up as hazards, but that's simply because I need them soon, and I'll have to do them if someone else doesn't.

Otherwise, I think that the Backdrop book will have the most utility. Because you can drop a rope bridge anywhere, or send your PCs to a volcano for multiple reasons, but unless the monster appeals to the DM, the DM isn't going to use it. Also, there's an entire book of monsters, quite a few traps and hazards, but no iconic Backdrops (Escaping a burning building, dealing with a crumbling floor, jumping across logs on a quick moving River).

- There is still the unresolved issue with the "Sea Serpent" for D&D. It's an old topic (I am not sure, it might also have been Rechan who reminded me of it a few months ago). Build a monster that can attack a ship, and make it interesting. One (3e) idea was to make it a "encounter monster", being representing by possible more then one monster and some enviromental hazards. But don't let that constrain you.

- A "Hell Mouth" (Buffy) might be interesting - something tentacled that lives underground.

- Epic monsters. I remember someone talking about a mythological fight where the hero killed so many foes that all the blood flowing into it angered a river and had him attack. A write-up for that alone would be awesome. But generally, monsters that really fit the epic scope.

- Xenomorphs/Aliens. We really need Face Hugger (Minion?), Alien and Queen.

- A Discworld Troll - a being made of "stone".

- A Discworld "Wee Free Man". Blue guys, very short. Definitely some feyish creature, with inappropriate strength for their size.

- A Monolith (Clarke/Cubricks Space 2001). Could also be just a "rock" with some intellect. Doesn't move, but teleport, and uses telekinesis or telepathy.

Feel free to make your own suggestions for possible fantasy backdrops and encounters.

 

[Rechan]

I also had this one:

For instance, take a fight with an Earth Titan. Don't do much to his stats, but create some set pieces like the earth tearing apart in a jagged line across the battlefield, or pillars of rock and iron that suddenly thrust upwards forty feet into the sky (anyone on top is separated from the party, and in perfect slapping distance for the titan). Then the next round the pillars fall over.

The ones I'd like to see the most are the Burning Building, and the Rope Bridge. Going inside a volcano (or an erupting volcano!), a river, maybe an ice cave, those are secondary but come to mind.

To give an example of what I mean, or at least how I see this format going down, let's take The Burning Building:

Hazards: Smoke, collapsing ceiling (attack), collapsing floor (attack/pit), spreading fire, catching on fire.

Terrain: Obscuring (Smoke), difficult terrain (?), hazardous terrain (moving across causes damage; likely areas on fire, but not engulfed in flame).

Skills: Endurance (deal with excessive exposure to smoke and heat?), Athletics (jumping over holes in the floor), acrobatics (avoid crumbling floors?), Perception or Insight (Where the fire is likely to spread/what areas are the most weak and dangerous?)

Also, for some inspiration, I point you to this thread. Post 5 as an example, and post 8 for broader ideas.

 

[jaldaen]

I also had this one:

Totally forgot that one... thanks for the reminder

The ones I'd like to see the most are the Burning Building, and the Rope Bridge. Going inside a volcano (or an erupting volcano!), a river, maybe an ice cave, those are secondary but come to mind.

Thanks for the suggestions.

To give an example of what I mean, or at least how I see this format going down, let's take The Burning Building:

Cool that's exactly what I was wondering... I wanted to see how you all would like it layed out in the book and this gives me a good starting point.

Also, for some inspiration, I point you to this thread. Post 5 as an example, and post 8 for broader ideas.

Thanks for the link, very interesting idea

 

[jaldaen]

So I am planning on having one "sample" fantasy backdrop posted here for feedback on the design and layout you all would prefer in the book. So which of the above mentioned fantasy backdrops would you prefer as the sample. I think a complicated one would be best since then I can get all the elements into the mix and see how best to lay it all out. I'll give a few days of discussion on this and then decide on one to work on.

Thanks for all you help with this project. I look forward to your feedback

PS: You can also make new fantasy backdrop proposals if you'd like to see something other than the above.

 

[77IM]

First, this sounds totally awesome. I am really looking forward to it.

Suggestions:

Maximize utility. One of the themes of 4e is to make life easy on the DM by allowing him to throw together adventures quickly. I love this and it's why I think this project is such a good idea. Here are some ways to help maximize utility:


1. Don't include monsters. An encounter setup that relies upon the presence of certain monsters (giants, kobolds, a carrion crawler, or whatever) limits its usefulness to encounters with those monsters. You might make exceptions for certain terrain-oriented monsters like oozes or ropers, but I think it's better to phrase such things as brief suggestions than integral parts of the backdrop.


2. Printable sheets. I want each backdrop to fit on exactly 1 page, or maybe a 2-page spread for something elaborate or which has a map (such as a deathtrap room, a room full of special teleporters, etc.), or a half-page column for something that really isn't that complicated (like the rope bridge, or a column on "strong winds" or something).

This also gives you an idea of the amount of info and level of detail that I am looking for. A quick rule about how far characters move when they fall and roll down a hill is nice, but only in the context of an encounter with hilly terrain ("Location 5: Canyon Ambush"). A massive six-page historical treatise on the proper defense of a castle gatehouse is right out.

Also if you are shooting for a 32-page product (for example), that gives us somewhere around 16 one-page backdrops and 6 two-page spreads (and 4 pages of title, contents, etc).


3. Variable backdrops. An "Ice Canyon Ambush" backdrop is fine, but better is a "Canyon Ambush" with a little section on how it would be different if the canyon were made of ice, or if it had a bog along the bottom or a forest along the top, or whatever. This allows me to use the backdrop in more situations. Other variations might include advice on how to include multiple backdrops (maybe there's a rope bridge over the canyon?) or how different sorts of monsters utilize the terrain.


4. Some backdrops should be typical, others creative. "Canyon Ambush" is pretty much a staple of fantasy and I'm sure I can use that one. But if you can come up with a few really wild, out-there backdrops, that's handy too. Maybe you can come up with a clever way to do "Hall of Mirrors," for example -- it won't be used in too many adventures, but when it is, it will be awesome.


5. Anticipate player actions. Encounter elements are only relevant when they are interacted with so the meat of the backdrop should focus on what happens when the players do X. For example, start with things like a description of the thing, illumination and Perception checks, then do difficult and challenging terrain, then any other features that characters can manipulate. The way that 4e adventures describe "Features of the Area" is pretty useful to me as the DM. For the backdrops, I think you should go out of your way to cover all the crazy stuff players do, from climbing things to knocking them down to lighting the whole place on fire. It's best if any DCs you provide are simply Easy, Medium, Hard, so that they can scale with level.


Well, you probably have enough on your mind so I'll stop there. Keep us posted with your progress on this! I really love it when people do my DM prep work for me. ;}

-- 77IM

 

[jaldaen]

First, this sounds totally awesome. I am really looking forward to it.

And I am really looking forward to writing it too

Maximize utility. One of the themes of 4e is to make life easy on the DM by allowing him to throw together adventures quickly. I love this and it's why I think this project is such a good idea. Here are some ways to help maximize utility:

Thanks for the suggestions they were very helpful

1. Don't include monsters. An encounter setup that relies upon the presence of certain monsters (giants, kobolds, a carrion crawler, or whatever) limits its usefulness to encounters with those monsters. You might make exceptions for certain terrain-oriented monsters like oozes or ropers, but I think it's better to phrase such things as brief suggestions than integral parts of the backdrop.

Yeah I was leaning towards not including monsters (except maybe unique ones), but rather to give DMs suggested encounters for the fantasy backdrops

2. Printable sheets. I want each backdrop to fit on exactly 1 page, or maybe a 2-page spread for something elaborate or which has a map (such as a deathtrap room, a room full of special teleporters, etc.), or a half-page column for something that really isn't that complicated (like the rope bridge, or a column on "strong winds" or something).

Good ideas... and although I'm not the best mapper I'll definately keep an eye out for making things fit into an appropriate spread. I'm thinking I'll try to keep things to the 1 inch x 1 inch scale that WotC seems to use in their adventures.

Btw... if anyone is a good mapper, then let me know and perhaps we could work something out

This also gives you an idea of the amount of info and level of detail that I am looking for. A quick rule about how far characters move when they fall and roll down a hill is nice, but only in the context of an encounter with hilly terrain ("Location 5: Canyon Ambush"). A massive six-page historical treatise on the proper defense of a castle gatehouse is right out.

Not treatise... got it!

Also if you are shooting for a 32-page product (for example), that gives us somewhere around 16 one-page backdrops and 6 two-page spreads (and 4 pages of title, contents, etc).

Thanks for the breakdown... it might just breakdown that way

3. Variable backdrops. An "Ice Canyon Ambush" backdrop is fine, but better is a "Canyon Ambush" with a little section on how it would be different if the canyon were made of ice, or if it had a bog along the bottom or a forest along the top, or whatever. This allows me to use the backdrop in more situations. Other variations might include advice on how to include multiple backdrops (maybe there's a rope bridge over the canyon?) or how different sorts of monsters utilize the terrain.

Nice idea... so give the generic version and then have some "add-ons" to make each fantasy backdrop unique. I like that idea

4. Some backdrops should be typical, others creative. "Canyon Ambush" is pretty much a staple of fantasy and I'm sure I can use that one. But if you can come up with a few really wild, out-there backdrops, that's handy too. Maybe you can come up with a clever way to do "Hall of Mirrors," for example -- it won't be used in too many adventures, but when it is, it will be awesome.

Hall of Mirrors, eh? I'll look into that one as well as some others that should be interesting.

5. Anticipate player actions. Encounter elements are only relevant when they are interacted with so the meat of the backdrop should focus on what happens when the players do X. For example, start with things like a description of the thing, illumination and Perception checks, then do difficult and challenging terrain, then any other features that characters can manipulate. The way that 4e adventures describe "Features of the Area" is pretty useful to me as the DM. For the backdrops, I think you should go out of your way to cover all the crazy stuff players do, from climbing things to knocking them down to lighting the whole place on fire. It's best if any DCs you provide are simply Easy, Medium, Hard, so that they can scale with level.

Yeah, I really like the "Features of the Area" section for WotC encounters and will definately keep the DCs to Easy, Medium, and Hard so they scale better for any level of play.

Well, you probably have enough on your mind so I'll stop there. Keep us posted with your progress on this! I really love it when people do my DM prep work for me. ;}

Thanks for the suggestions and I'll definately keep everyone posted on how this project is going.

 

[jaldaen]

So I've been thinking about how I want to lay the book out and I'm considering something like the following:

Table of Contents

Bridge (rope, tree, etc.)
Building (burning, etc.)
Canyon (ambush, etc.)
Cavern (volcanic, etc.)
Floor (crumbling, ice, etc.)
Forest (trapped, etc.)
Gateway (infernal, aberrant, etc)
Jungle (man-eating plants, strangling vines, etc.)
River (crossing, flooded, fords, jumping logs, etc.)
Ship (sea serpent, whirlpool, etc.)
Stone Formations (magical, obelisks, etc.)

Essentially, I'm thinking of putting everything in alphabetical order according to the backdrop. Under each general backdrop chapter there would be sub sections for the different types of things you could do with the backdrop.

Anyway, if you have an idea for other general backdrops, or specific ones under one of the above chapters I'd love to hear them.

Also if you have any comments on how I'm planning to lay the book out and whether you like the idea of general chapters to specific subheadings, let me know.

Thanks for you help and I look forward to your feedback

 

[Rechan]

Here's another notion: Powerful Ritual. You know, lightning, powerful winds, shaking earth, the kind've effects you'd expect when someone is trying to achieve the apocalypse or ascend to Godhood.

Jungle (man-eating plants, strangling vines, etc.)

I love you man. That would make things so convenient for me.

Although, hmm. The question is "Where does a monster end and a hazard begin?" Strangling plants or assassin vines, for instance. The question might be going for the 'fantastic'. Like some sort of hypnotic pheromone plant that draws prey in that way, or ... I'm not sure.

One suggestion for a potential hazard of The Jungle: Quicksand! (Or you could put that in a swamp, with methane pockets, etc)

Cavern (volcanic, etc.)

Fungus! Mold! Mold! Fungus! Er, ahem.

77IM has a good point about something like "The Hall of Mirrors"; unique backdrops that present something exotic. Like a Clockwork Tower, a Mad Wizard's Laboratory (with oozes and bottles full of hazardous magical effects, portals, platforms, etc); basically any place that stands alone, and is fantastic all by itself.

Don't be afraid to offer unique aspects of any of the above, either. For instance, a forest made of crystal.

Also, don't forget a few "Fantasy Features of the Area". An area that the Monster is going to Teleport, a special defense (like an invisible fence as a barrier, altars with magical effects in the immediate area/any favorable one near by, etc). This is one of my favorite aspects of the new edition - that you can just 'drop something with effect X' in the area.

 

[77IM]

Table of Contents

Bridge (rope, tree, etc.)
Building (burning, etc.)
Canyon (ambush, etc.)
Cavern (volcanic, etc.)
Floor (crumbling, ice, etc.)
Forest (trapped, etc.)
Gateway (infernal, aberrant, etc)
Jungle (man-eating plants, strangling vines, etc.)
River (crossing, flooded, fords, jumping logs, etc.)
Ship (sea serpent, whirlpool, etc.)
Stone Formations (magical, obelisks, etc.)

Now you have got me drooling.

Take all of Rechan's suggestions too!

-- 77IM