D&D 4E 4E Giants

[Glyfair]

I wanted to open up the discussion on Giants from the news item I just posted. Go ahead and read it...

I like that giants have both large & huge versions now. Matt Sernett mentions that he was pushing for all giants being huge. However, there were considerations against that. Miniatures are harder to get out if all giants are huge. Also, huge creatures have a harder time maneuvering on the battlefield, which causes some issues as well.

The giant background looks pretty close to Eberron's. Giants used to have huge empires, but they are gone now and giants have regressed to a less civilized state. Tying the elemental nature might be trickier, but certainly not too hard to do. They even have analogs for the Shadowfell (either Mabar or the Plane of Shadow) and the Feywild (Thelanis). Nope, taking the 4E changes and fitting them in Eberron won't be too hard.

 

[Rechan]

As I said there, it does explain why we won't have frost giants in the first MM.

Think about it. Since the Giants are tied to the elements, we'll likely see:

Storm Giant
Fire Giant
Mountain Giant
(Some sort of Water Giant?)
Cyclops
Fomorian
Death Giant.

That's 7, right there, not counting Ogres, Trolls, etc. So, if they tossed in Frost Giants (Which are probably a Lesser giant), then they'd probably have to toss in Hill and Stone giants...

That's a lot of Giants.

 

[Glyfair]

That's 7, right there, not counting Ogres, Trolls, etc.

Well, of course you aren't counting ogres and trolls since they aren't going to be giants in 4E. It wasn't 100% certain in the wording, but it clearly was intended to exclude most of those sort of creatures.

In 4E being a large, tall humanoid doesn't make you a giant. It seems you'll need some sort of elemental tie. The section states they wanted a more thematic tie to the giants than being able to throw and catch rocks.

BTW, Ettins were mentioned in the "probably aren't 4E giants" list.

 

[I'm A Banana]

As I said there, it does explain why we won't have frost giants in the first MM.

Think about it. Since the Giants are tied to the elements, we'll likely see:

Storm Giant
Fire Giant
Mountain Giant
(Some sort of Water Giant?)
Cyclops
Fomorian
Death Giant.

The great flaw in this reasoning is that Frost Giants make a good replacement for the "water giant" category.

And because the Giant type is so elemental, I don't think "hill giants" will be official giants anymore.

So no, in isolation, this does not explain why there are no frost giants. It, in fact, makes their abscence all the more suspicious, since they'd fit right in with the "elemental giant" theme, better, in fact, than cyclopes and fomorians.

 

[Rechan]

The great flaw in this reasoning is that Frost Giants make a good replacement for the "water giant" category.

Except that I think the Frost Giant would be a "lesser giant".

 

[Glyfair]

Except that I think the Frost Giant would be a "lesser giant".

Actually, my "lesser" giant comment was a joke. According to the two pages, "lesser giants" are all the giants except titans.

 

[frankthedm]

[IMaGel]http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/8387/frostyfa8.jpg[/IMagel]Hell, Do frost giants really need to be full-on immune to cold? Five to ten points of cold resistance is MORE than enough to handle almost any cold enviorment, even a glacial rift. Thus a frost giant is a bit hardier to cold atatcks, but no longer needs that achiles heal of fire attacks.

IMHO from the way D&D depicts them, 'frost' giant should still be flesh and blood, not ice and antifreeze. The thing on the left looks immune to ice, and one would expect it to take extra damage form fire. The giant on the right, not so much.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Hill giants are probably the small versions of mountain giants.

I'm guessing cloud giants are air and storm giants are water.

 

[DamnedChoir]

Personally, I really like these changes. Giants possibly related to Demons, too? Either way, I'm getting a real 'Shadow Of The Colossus' feel with these new Giants.

It'd be awesome if we could climb them and stab them in the head, but maybe that's just my wishful thinking. (Give them DR except in certain places!)

 

[frankthedm]

It'd be awesome if we could climb them and stab them in the head, but maybe that's just my wishful thinking. (Give them DR except in certain places!)

Well, an easy way to do that is allow creatures too small to initiate grapple, but if succsefful, the big critter is not 'grappled', but rather the grappler has "climbed aboard". Then if the 'grappler' uses a "climb action", his next attack gets a hefty bonus.