D&D 4E 4E Giants

[Rechan]

Frank has yet to confirm that the picture up above is the 4e Frostgiant.

I believe that was used in an example of an argument about Frost Giants being immune to cold vs. Cold Resistant.

The one on the right is CLEARLY immune to cold because he's a walking iceman. The one on the Right looks like he's just sorta resistant because he's mostly human with a bit of a skin hue change.

 

[Nikosandros]

Frank has yet to confirm that the picture up above is the 4e Frostgiant.

Indeed. You can't just post a picture like that and then disappear...

 

[Dragoon]

Honestly, what the heck is the designers fascination with elemental themes...it is way overboard. This edition should renamed to Dungeons and Elemental Themes.

Not that elemental themed giants is a bad idea overall, and I like the lesser and greater giants idea. But now we have elemental demons, achrons, and new elemental type creatures.

I'm not totally anti-4e but some of these "lets change flavor to change flavor" design (t3h 43 kw3l p0w3rz, br0) ideas is getting a bit much.

At this point I'm going to do a 3.75, because 4e flavor is too meh.

 

[Glyfair]

I don't think that the new giants are going to LOOK like elementals, ala the example picture shown above.

The Mountain Giant picture is pretty close to the equivalent.

That being said, maybe those pictures are the Huge giants and the large giants will look closer to the classic types.

Mountain Giants will probably have stony skin, but more subtle... like a statue, as opposed to an earth elemental that is jagged and craggy.

Actually, the picture is somewhat jagged and craggy. The Thing is more humanoid looking.

 

[Novem5er]

Well, I'll be

I hope you are right that these are the Huge giants.... which might be closer to the element from which they were forged. I have to ask, however, what would be the difference between Huge giants and Huge elementals?

I like the fluff, but I don't see a reason to make giants into elementals as they occupy two different fantasy ideals.

I still feel the basic giants will be humanish, like the Fire Giant we saw on the DMs Screen.

 

[Charwoman Gene]

I have to ask, however, what would be the difference between Huge giants and Huge elementals?

4E Fanboy Mode: What's an elemental?

"Huge Fire Elemental" "Small Earth Elemental"?

Don't exist as per the "Monster, Monsters, Monsters" Podcast.

 

[DamnedChoir]

For the people upset about the elemental and fey natures of so many new monsters...read into your mythology.

Dragons have elemental breath weapons, because dragons WERE originally considered by some to be the spirits of elements. (mostly fire and water.) It totally makes sense, as does fey. I for one like a united, coherent, thematic origin for the various monsters, it was a major problem of mine in 3E where they categorized things nonsensically...then didn't explain them.

I also hope that they make Orcs and Goblins related in this version, that was annoying in 3E, I'd always considered Orcs, Goblins, Hobgoblins, etc, to all be related, while things like Gnolls and Kobolds were off on their own tree and Ogres were just big dumb men. (I like Giants being changed, now we have room for Ogres)

The problem before...was that there were so many monsters and creatures that were similar to each other, there were always at least 2 things that filled a niche. Big dumb club wielding humanoid, savage fangy humanoid that smashes things, underwater good humanoid (part fish), underwater bad humanoid (part fish). There are even DOZENS in some of these categories.

I for one like where 4E is going with fluff, it's some of the class rules that concern me more.

 

[frankthedm]

R&C states that blanket immunity are extremely rare in 4e... where is the info about frost giants being immune to cold?

Also, I'm curious about the source of that image...

That was a copy of a post i made previously on whether a frost giant is needed in the first MM and how an arctic dwelling giant does not need immunity to cold as was given in all previous edtions.

The illo, a quick copy and paste job with an ice monster found googling, was to show how D&D giants IMO don't look like they need elemntal immunities. As opposed to a creature comprised of the element in question.

Since it sounds like 4e will have those pseudo-elemental giants, i though the post was relevant. Though, maybe that was the Jägermeister... hic.

 

[Rechan]

Frank, it should also be noted that in R&C they talked about few creatures getting straight up immunities. Even elementals. The example of a fire elemental getting obliterated by a Red Dragon's breath weapon, et al.

For the people upset about the elemental and fey natures of so many new monsters

Actually, I for one welcome our Fey overlords. Fey have always been the redheaded stepchild of the monster world, as far as D&D is concerned. They're getting a shot in the arm.

The problem before...was that there were so many monsters and creatures that were similar to each other, there were always at least 2 things that filled a niche. Big dumb club wielding humanoid, savage fangy humanoid that smashes things, underwater good humanoid (part fish), underwater bad humanoid (part fish). There are even DOZENS in some of these categories.

This is in part due to 1e (or the 0E or whatever). Basically things progressed like, you first fought goblins and kobolds, then you fought orcs (1 HD), then gnolls (2 HD) then Bugbears (3 HD...)

I'm pretty sure that Goblins/Hobgoblins/Bugbears are Goblinoids, while Orcs are something else entirely. Kobolds and Gnolls were related in 2e (I think). The creatures I think lack flavor actually are Harpies/Grimlocks/Troglodytes, really.

But while some of them fill eachother's niche, the important thing is to make them distinct. That's nice about what 4e is doing, with giving the various monster races powers related to make them stand apart (Gnolls get powers to make them act like a pack of hyena; goblins get powers allowing them to dodge out from around swords, et al).

A cohesive explanation that relates things together, and explains where they came from is fine by me*. While I think they're pouring on the Elemental part a little thick, I don't necessarily have a problem with it. Demons once being corrupted elementals? That's fine, and a little inventive. Giants related to the elemental Titans? Hey, mythology at work, that's cool with me. Besides, we have Fire, Frost and Stone giants, why not? The emphasis on planar critters (Mephits, para-elementals, etc etc), and tons of fire-based monsters in the various MMs, it's nothing new. Anyone remember that Golems are constructs animated with the spirits of Elementals?

*As long as I can implement any sort of fluff that I want (i.e. Paizo's fluff about Ogres or Goblins, for instance).

 

[Reynard]

Frank, it should also be noted that in R&C they talked about few creatures getting straight up immunities. Even elementals. The example of a fire elemental getting obliterated by a Red Dragon's breath weapon, et al.

And this is just plain dumb. It is a fire elemental -- it is a living embodiment of an element, a semi-sentient ball of fire. That it would even notice, let alone be hurt by, a dragon's fiery breath is just silly (at best). And ultimately the only reason the idea exists at all isbecause someone decided the mage should be able to hurt it with his fireball, because anything else would be unfun. No thanks. Prepare ice storm next time you are planning on fighter a fire elemental, Mr Wizard.