D&D 4E 4e Healing - Is This Right?

[TwinBahamut]

Absolutely. I agree 100 percent. So ...

Why not just make it five minutes to being perfectly healed?

If the goal is to keep the game moving, to keep the PCs adventuring, to dispense with the downtime sometimes required by the -- *choke* -- more simulationist HP in 3.5, why six hours? Why not five minutes?

Because there is a significant gameplay difference between healing up in five minutes and healing up in six hours, while there is no significant gameplay difference between healing up in one day or a week. The first removes the difference between per-day and per-encounter powers and completely removes attrition from adventure and dungeon design, and the second preserves all of that.

It has fairly little to do with simulationism or preserving suspension of disbelief, and a lot to do with maintaining resource management and rewarding efficient battle tactics in a series of encounters.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

I feel like you're mixing Roll and Role playing.

Has anybody ever heard of ROLEPLAYING?

I find this ironic. (And not just because accusing someone of "roll-playing" is the EN World equivalent of Godwin's.)

I'm arguing against a system that has, as its stated design goal, getting the PCs back into fight after fight after fight. How many times have people said waiting to heal is "no fun"? My group and I, sure, often we fast-forward through downtime while we're healing or recovering other resources. But often we use the time to roleplay amongst ourselves, or to achieve other roleplaying objectives (such as questioning NPCs, for one example).

So 4E's healing is specifically designed to keep the combats coming, but in not liking the 6HM, I'm the one into "roll-playing"? Really?

 

[Jeff Wilder]

It has fairly little to do with simulationism or preserving suspension of disbelief, and a lot to do with maintaining resource management and rewarding efficient battle tactics in a series of encounters.

So if daily and encounter powers were replaced with something else equivalently tactical, you'd be okay with perfect healing in five minutes, right?

 

[smetzger]

I am not saying this is a good thing. However, this is why you heal all hp after resting in 4e...

1) They wanted to lessen the dependence that you had to have a Cleric in the party.

2) In previous editions you usually were at full hp's after a night of resting. You needed a Cleric, but you were up and ready.

As a result of auto healing after resting...
1) Cleric's have less healing spells

2) It is much easier to dispense with having a Cleric


HP's are an abstraction. If a 10th level character has 50 hp max and loses 40, is he really physically injured? If a 1st level character with 5hp max loses 4 hit points, is he physically injured? Wouldn't it make sense that the 1st level character is on death's bed with an actual injury while the 10th level character is just winded, or has used up some luck? So, why does it take more spells for the 10th level character to be 'healed' than the 1st level character?

 

[breschau]

Hey all,

With the handout sheets from DDXP, I'm wondering if I've read this right -- all hp are restored by an extended rest? So no matter what level you are, you rest for the night, and poof, you have full hit points?

Am I reading this correctly?

Yes, once per day you can take an extended rest. What's wrong with that? Besides, how is that different than it's been before? That's what my various groups have done from OD&D until now.

 

[Archade]

Okay,

Sorry to have opened up this can of worms. I think I'm looking at this from an old AD&D perspective.

If I recall correctly, the old PHB that at low levels, hit points are the ability to take damage. At higher levels, that ability to take damage is bolstered with the ability to lunge out of the way, block shots, rely on luck, and so on. So a 1st level fighter who gets hit with a greatsword and takes 12 hp, he's dying. But a 10th level fighter with 80 hp who gets hit with a greatsword and takes 12 hp, he's slightly winded and has a small bruise.

I mean, D&D is about resource management. A previous poster talked about waking up 20 hp down and making a tactical decision. That's something I'm used to. In fact, I house rule that natural healing in my campaigns is 1/4 hp per level per day (one-quarter normal healing).

I'm okay with the abstract of hit points as originally intended. I'm looking for lasting effects.

Of course, I used to play HarnMaster, where people take 3 months to recover from wounds, if they don't get septic poisoning, go into shock, or need a limb amputated from infection ...

 

[AZRogue]

Absolutely. I agree 100 percent. So ...

Why not just make it five minutes to being perfectly healed?

If the goal is to keep the game moving, to keep the PCs adventuring, to dispense with the downtime sometimes required by the -- *choke* -- more simulationist HP in 3.5, why six hours? Why not five minutes?

Resource management, I think. You can take one prolonged rest a "day" and you get healed, reset your Action Points, and reset all abilities. I think they just made it that way to make it easier, since they obviously wanted to make daily powers and the daily limit of healing surges controlled to a loose extent. They made them all be recharged after a prolonged rest so they're all on the same "cooldown" so it's easier to track, IMO.

They probably made it a 6 hour rest period instead of the traditional 8 because a person can function perfectly well with only 6 hours of rest. A little simulation-tainted idea, I think.

I'm still holding out hope that an optional rule of some kind is included for longer lasting injuries. I don't necessarily think it should be default, considering the tone of the edition, but to have it included would be a nice nod towards those who hinge their fun on a bit of simulation instead of on kicking down doors and killing stuff (like me).

 

[Grog]

No, I'm observing a function of the game. In every edition of D&D prior to 4E, it took time or magic to heal fully from being down heavy HP. You were seriously injured.

No, you weren't.

I'm sorry, but if you can run, and jump, and swim, and climb, and tumble, and lift heavy weights, and perform a myriad of other physically demanding activities, and perform them at 100% of your usual ability all day long, you are not seriously injured. Period.

No edition of D&D has ever modeled serious injury (barring optional rules about coming back from negative hit points).

 

[Stalker0]

For you, right? For some of us, including I suspect the original poster, it's not so much a matter of how much time, certainly not once you're talking "two days or less." It's that one of those has a world-consistent explanation for it -- magical healing, which actually exists in the game as a resource -- and one has absolutely no explanation.

How far does this go? Just how far is everyone who would like to play 4E expected to bear the burden of the game's disregard for suspension of disbelief? Is every 4E critic -- pretty much all of whom cite the game breaking suspension of disbelief, in one new rule or another -- just being unreasonably unwilling to accept everything in the game and invent rationales for it?

The counterpoint to this has been, does 4e really break suspension of disbelief more than 3e?


The assumption here is that most critics of 4e are satisfied with 3e. That they feel 3e doesn't break their suspension of belief too badly. They then say that 4e shatters their suspension of disbelief. So we would like to know how.

As has been shown, a 3e character can easily take a horrible beating and be back up to full in a few days of bedrest (unless your a high level characters, then it can take a week). In 4e, you can do it in a day, but it still takes a dedicated amount of bedrest. Is that really that much worse than 3e?

 

[tuffnoogies]

For you, right? For some of us, including I suspect the original poster, it's not so much a matter of how much time, certainly not once you're talking "two days or less." It's that one of those has a world-consistent explanation for it -- magical healing, which actually exists in the game as a resource -- and one has absolutely no explanation.

Absolutely no explanation? I just figured the characters spent that 6 hours using surges to fully heal. It's even easier to explain if there's a cleric or pally in the group. Seems like a pretty obvious explanation to me.