D&D General 4e Healing was the best D&D healing

[jmartkdr2]

Can we just sum up this discussion as "4E healing is best for a certain playstyle, but some people prefer other playstyles"?

I'd make that one small edit, but otherwise I think that's actually the current consensus.

 

[Undrave]

Can we just sum up this discussion as "4E healing is best for a certain playstyle, but some people prefer other playstyles"?

I dunno if I would frame it necessarily as a playstyle thing, per se.

I would put it that way: "4e Healing the most fully realized healing system in D&D, but that's not something everybody cares about".

This in a nutshell. To make it bearable for people forced to do it, they made it very unfun for the people who loved to do it.

I'm curious if you feel you can pull it off better in 5e?

I feel like in 5e there's a total lack of support cantrips. Once you've launched your Bless you can't use another buff spell (because of concentration) and you're not gonna be using Healing Words every turn so what do you do when your buff is set and no one needs healing? This is actually why I don't particularly like the 5e cleric much... it's support options feel too rare and limited. Even a Bard's Vicious Mockery is a better support option, even if it involves hiting something.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Might I ask, what are you playing at the moment? And how much of each edition did you play?

It's also obvious that the mechanics of the game are not your focus. There are people who's interaction with the game is more through the mechanics, and they notice things/play the game in ways that are quite different then yours...

Sure, np.

Started with B/X at 5 y.o. back in 1979.
By '82 or so I was playing AD&D at 9 y.o.
Put in some BECMI until '91.
Added 2E I think around '90 or '91 IIRC.
Tried 3E in 2004 for about a year (giver or take a bit).
Went back to our 1E/2E-hybrid until 2007.
Stopped playing for 11 years.
Picked up 5E in Nov. 2018

Accounting for some overlap between versions:
B/X and BECMI about 7-8 years of play.
1E (only) for about 8 years.
1E/2E hybrid for 15-16 years.
3E for 1 year
5E over 1.5 years now...

So, obviously mostly AD&D (either 1E and/or 2E) for nearly 25 years.

I should differentiate. "Crunch" (options, features, more fluff & stuff) are NOT my thing really. Mechanics (i.e. how the combat system works, hit points and saves, making the game immersive and plausible) are VERY MUCH my thing, and more the "ordinary people doing extraordinary things" (not zero-to-hero, or superhero) style is more fun for me.

Given all that, I am sure you can understand why (I have to imagine) 4E would not have been for me.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Also, you are fundamentally painting my opinion in a bad light and doing some gatekeeping.

Seriously? I am arguably doing the first as a matter of fact (it's not like, my goal in life or something), but I think the second is pretty silly as an accusation.

by defining a healer as "someone who wants to win" (IOW kill)

Not "in other words". In your words.

When I say win, I mean win. That doesn't necessarily entail any killing. So you're arguing with yourself here. Actual healers want the party to live and succeed. That, since 3E, arguably since 2E, actually relatively rarely means casting healing spells.

It is not a nice experience.

For you, apparently, but for most people, I don't think that's true.

Now this is a severe oversimplification. It is not that I want to heal every single turn, but I expect most of the relevant things I do in a combat to be buff-heal-cure related.

It doesn't sound like an oversimplification from what you're saying there so that's a bit confusing. Also it's not true that you have to do all that much damage. We had a largely non-damaging healer in my 4E group (though she did have some utterly deadly stuff because, well, she was there to help the party, not perform some pointless activity for her own satisfaction), and she did tremendously despite contributing relatively little to damage.

I can certainly see that a Lazylord might have pleased you better. One of the players in my group was a Shaman which was sort of Lazylord-adjacent.

Also that wand of CLW has never been an issue for me. That's what social contract is for, I make pretty clear that I'm playing a class that heals because I want to heal and going out of the way to get one is a vote of no confidence.

Christ.

 

[Zardnaar]

How much were the magic crafting rules used, though? That is, by people who didn't squawk about D&D online? In our games back then, the abundance of healing potions did cause some problems (so I limited their availability), but I never thought of crafting healsticks until reading flame wars about the issue on these boards (and decided to not mention the option to my players). My players never showed the crafting rules much interest at all.

I'm just genuinely wondering. Ive never heard of anyone actually using those rules in RL (which doesn't mean no one I've talked with didn't, just that it never came up in discussions about the game).

Did everyone reading this thread who played 3e for a significant amount of time use those rules?

Scrolls were more common, very early 3.0 we had a wizard nicknamed Xerox as he figured out 10 scrolls of haste was a great deal.

Craft Wondrous Item was used more than wands but wand got taken sometimes. Espicially if they couldn't buy in bulk.

By 2010 or so I banned the feats and used 2E Spells and Magic item creation.

The fundamental problem is letting PCs craft items for cheap/easy.

 

[MichaelSomething]

To make it bearable for people forced to do it, they made it very unfun for the people who loved to do it.

The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few??

 

[Zardnaar]

The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few??

My version.
"The right of the group to have fun outweighs your right to be an idiot"

 

[DnD Warlord]

There are so many mechanical aspects of 4E that really make it the superior game to me. It's sad that there's something about the simulationist aspects of 3E/5E that make them generally more widely liked systems.

I've been running a 5E game, and every time I design encounters I get sad and miss 4E.

I wish I could marry 5Es character presentation to 4Es mechanics and monsters, but every time I sit down to do a rewrite, I get lost.

If I could do it, I would want to use the 4e basic concept, with alot of 5e bolted on and a small bit of 2e and 3e...however i never manage ieither. r.

 

[Ashrym]

Not a fan of healing in 4e. I prefer 5e's separation of healing powers from hit dice healing and using both as a hybrid model f on previous editions.

But I like the healing surge abilities as an additional concept and would like more options to spend hit dice as part of abilities in addition to spells outside of a short rest beyond a dwarven racial feat.

 

[Garthanos]

The fundamental problem is letting PCs craft items for cheap/easy.

That may be sacrificing fantasy tropes for a game issue instead of reconfiguring the game part. Basically I think brewing of potions and crafting of magic unctures is very common fantasy arguably healing is like the real world most common claimed magic and yes done with potions and crystals and muds and herbs and so on. Of course most of that healing could be seen as rituals to remove afflictions and disease rather than invigorating a roughed up hero.
4e made potions basically an energy drink but only a minor action so still useful if you lack a leader. (yet still limited)