D&D General 4e Healing was the best D&D healing

[The Crimson Binome]

A thief/rogue in leather armor. Leather armor will NOT prevent a morningstar from shattering bone. The far more reasonable explanation, IMO, is a near miss or glancing blow.

Fantasy leather armor? Or historical leather armor? In any case, it is entirely unreasonable that a solid blow is impossible to land against an opponent with significant HP reserves. When someone swings a morningstar at you, the possibility must exist that it will make direct contact. That's just simple cause and effect.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Damage on a failed skill check for climbing would be unusual IME (other than for falling off the wall and going splat) to the point that you appear to be saying that the DM would inflict hit point damage if and only if someone went climbing on 1hp. This would appear to be a house rule

Falling rocks are a normal hazard of climbing, and being hit by a rock causes damage. That's just normal adjudication of a reasonable DM. It's not a house rule in the slightest.

You mean that there is never a situation where a thief in leather armour will be hit by a morningstar. And wizards are the squishiest class in the game - it's pretty clear that they aren't meant to be supernaturally tough unless they have spells up. I'd call this a 100% in context situation, myself.

Even if you follow that old Gygaxian handwave, he claimed that most HP at high levels were a byproduct of enchanted armor or defensive spells that weren't otherwise made explicit.

 

[Fanaelialae]

Fantasy leather armor? Or historical leather armor? In any case, it is entirely unreasonable that a solid blow is impossible to land against an opponent with significant HP reserves. When someone swings a morningstar at you, the possibility must exist that it will make direct contact. That's just simple cause and effect.

I don't see a difference.

I think it certainly is possible. You can dodge the blows that would otherwise strike true (using hp) until you can't.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

I don't see a difference.

I think it certainly is possible. You can dodge the blows that would otherwise strike true (using hp) until you can't.

And what? Any attack against a paralyzed or entangled target just bypasses HP? That's simply not how the model works. Dodging is factored into the system in multiple places, and an increased ability to dodge is never represented as a bonus to HP.

 

[Campbell]

I think if a game requires an interpretation of the fiction that is so foreign to human experience when you are representing what are supposed to be fairly normal human characters then that is a deeply flawed game. Logical consistency when it comes at the cost of being able to relate to the fiction is no win.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

I think if a game requires an interpretation of the fiction that is so foreign to human experience when you are representing what are supposed to be fairly normal human characters then that is a deeply flawed game. Logical consistency when it comes at the cost of being able to relate to the fiction is no win.

If someone hits you with a lethal weapon, and it doesn't even draw blood, then that interpretation is entirely foreign to the human experience. Likewise, if someone is beaten nearly to unconsciousness and yet recovers fully by the next morning, then that interpretation is entirely foreign to the human experience.

 

[Fanaelialae]

If someone hits you with a lethal weapon, and it doesn't even draw blood, then that interpretation is entirely foreign to the human experience. Likewise, if someone is beaten nearly to unconsciousness and yet recovers fully by the next morning, then that interpretation is entirely foreign to the human experience.

It's almost as though the expenditure of HP caused them to miss you...

 

[DND_Reborn]

FWIW, after reading this thread for a while, I just want to throw in that IMO just because HP is fully restored after a long rest doesn't mean necessarily that all the cuts, minor bruises, sore muscles, mental stress, etc. are gone. All it really means to me is that you are at 100% "fighting capacity", rested enough to go back into the fray effectively. That might even mean the PC has a bruised or fractured bone or something, but they are able to push through the current pain and do what they have to.

Also, since the abstract concept of HP also includes skill, luck, blessing of the gods, etc., I imagine what a PC's hp are can fluctuate. Maybe one time it is mostly luck, another day maybe more skill, or reflexes, or whatever. So, while the character might still have bumps and such, perhaps the hp is pretty much luck for that next attack? Most of the abstract aspects of HP have no visual sign as I see it, thus resting and recovering to full hp or "combat effectiveness" as I sometimes like to call it, doesn't have to defy what people can experience.

YMMV but that is how I think of it.

 

[Neonchameleon]

If someone hits you with a lethal weapon, and it doesn't even draw blood, then that interpretation is entirely foreign to the human experience. Likewise, if someone is beaten nearly to unconsciousness and yet recovers fully by the next morning, then that interpretation is entirely foreign to the human experience.

And if someone is beaten to hell and back but is as physically and mentally able as they are when fresh that's entirely foreign to human experience. Likewise if someone's hit hard and directly by a morningstar, mace, or ogre club while wearing light and flexible or no armour and that doesn't break bones that's entirely foreign to human experience. Likewise if someone can have their bones broken and continue unimpeded, recovering in only a couple of weeks with no physical impact that's entirely foreign to human experience.

Hit points working as they do in AD&D is entirely foreign to human experience. I have however played numerous video games, mostly 80s beat em ups and 90s fighting games, and FPS games where "pounding away at the opponent's healthbar with no consequences except the occasional knockdown until the bar is depleted and health regenerates painfully slowly over time unless you pick up a medikit or other effectively magic form of healing" is the model.

The single model of hit points that is most in line with human experience, and it isn't even close is 4e's. That's because hit points in 4e work roughly the way they do during in a boxing match or a Hollywood action movie. 4e ditches the threadbare pretense of older editions and instead goes straight for the sort of combat damage you'd see in a big budget Hollywood action movie. Which is at least consistent and makes things a lot more tense and interesting.

If you want realism then you need a death spiral. If you want narrative consistency and consequences in a game about action heroes 4e works and 5e just about does because it's watered down 4e. If on the other hand you want something entirely foreign to human experience outside video games that aren't even pretending to be other than games you use classic hit points.

Falling rocks are a normal hazard of climbing, and being hit by a rock causes damage. That's just normal adjudication of a reasonable DM. It's not a house rule in the slightest.

So you freely admit that the climbing is just as capable at 1hp as at full hp. It's simply that when rocks fall they are more likely to die. They've the same success chance and would get equally far on a climbing wall; the climbing skill they have is no different.

Even if you follow that old Gygaxian handwave, he claimed that most HP at high levels were a byproduct of enchanted armor or defensive spells that weren't otherwise made explicit.

And somehow a magical world having people who recover fast is more immersion breaking?

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

If HP are all inspiration, what does the cure wounds spell do? Why is it not titled inspire valor?