D&D General 4e Healing was the best D&D healing

[The Crimson Binome]

If the hit is substantive then it ought to result in wound penalties or the like. Otherwise we're back to superhuman PCs who can take a greataxe to the skull without missing a beat.

A hit can be substantive without being obviously fatal. Most hits should fall into that category, where it's unlikely to kill anyone outright, but enough of them will kill anyone.

 

[Fanaelialae]

A hit can be substantive without being obviously fatal. Most hits should fall into that category, where it's unlikely to kill anyone outright, but enough of them will kill anyone.

Not necessarily fatal, sure, but certainly at least impeding. A scratch is non-impeding. Getting hamstrung is not immediately fatal and is substantive, but should certainly hinder the target. Even a serious gash should penalize the creature.

There are no penalties for getting hit and taking damage. Therefore, it seems to me that hits must be superficial.

I mean sure, you can describe it however you want, technically. However, if you describe my character's arm nearly being cleaved off, blood gushing from the wound, and the next turn I hack away at the creature with my own greataxe, there is clear narrative dissonance IMO.

 

[Eric V]

If I fanboy over any single RPG book, the Bestiary for 13th Age is it. Dripping with flavor and lore with hooks. And art. Bestiary 2 was pretty good as well.

Agreed!

...and then I read Eyes of the Stone Thief and, well...new number 1.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Not necessarily fatal, sure, but certainly at least impeding. A scratch is non-impeding. Getting hamstrung is not immediately fatal and is substantive, but should certainly hinder the target. Even a serious gash should penalize the creature.

There are no penalties for getting hit and taking damage. Therefore, it seems to me that hits must be superficial.

The real question isn't whether a boxer who takes a few punches to the gut should be relatively less capable than they were before getting hit. The real question is whether that penalty is worth modeling in significant detail. Is it on the same degree of impact as the proficiency bonus, or the ability bonus?

If a professional boxer goes a few rounds with another professional boxer of equal competence, should they then be easy pickings for an amateur boxer in a subsequent match? If the only way of modeling the advantage of the fresh amateur is that the worn expert takes fewer hits to knock out, but the pro is still more likely to land hits on the amateur than the other way around, then that's perfectly reasonable (to me) given the limited nature of the model.

I mean sure, you can describe it however you want, technically. However, if you describe my character's arm nearly being cleaved off, blood gushing from the wound, and the next turn I hack away at the creature with my own greataxe, there is clear narrative dissonance IMO.

At least we're in agreement on that.

 

[Fanaelialae]

The real question isn't whether a boxer who takes a few punches to the gut should be relatively less capable than they were before getting hit. The real question is whether that penalty is worth modeling in significant detail. Is it on the same degree of impact as the proficiency bonus, or the ability bonus?

If a professional boxer goes a few rounds with another professional boxer of equal competence, should they then be easy pickings for an amateur boxer in a subsequent match? If the only way of modeling the advantage of the fresh amateur is that the worn expert takes fewer hits to knock out, but the pro is still more likely to land hits on the amateur than the other way around, then that's perfectly reasonable (to me) given the limited nature of the model.


At least we're in agreement on that.

Boxing is the outlier here. In most cases characters in D&D have deadly weapons swung at them, not fists.

Should having your arm nearly severed by a greataxe result in penalties, IMO? Absolutely. The alternative seems absurd to me.

Of course, I prefer the model whereby attacks that hit you while you have HP remaining do not inflict substantive injuries (or none at all).

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Boxing is the outlier here. In most cases characters in D&D have deadly weapons swung at them, not fists.

Is it, though? Adventurers may be on the receiving end of deadlier weapons than fists, but they also tend to be substantially better armored. An ogre swinging a club at a knight in plate armor isn't that different from a professional boxer punching someone without armor.

 

[Fanaelialae]

Is it, though? Adventurers may be on the receiving end of deadlier weapons than fists, but they also tend to be substantially better armored. An ogre swinging a club at a knight in plate armor isn't that different from a professional boxer punching someone without armor.

A rogue in leather armor that is actually hit by a greataxe is very different from a professional boxer punching someone without armor.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

A rogue in leather armor that is actually hit by a greataxe is very different from a professional boxer punching someone without armor.

To the extent that this is true, a rogue with ~3hp per level is extremely likely to be killed by a solid hit from such a weapon, and devoting rules to detail such an unlikely scenario would be criminally inefficient.

Especially given that, by the time they're high enough level to potentially survive 12 damage, they almost certainly have magical armor.

 

[Fanaelialae]

To the extent that this is true, a rogue with ~3hp per level is extremely likely to be killed by a solid hit from such a weapon, and devoting rules to detail such an unlikely scenario would be criminally inefficient.

Especially given that, by the time they're high enough level to potentially survive 12 damage, they almost certainly have magical armor.

Because greataxes only deal 12 damage? A first level rogue can certainly survive a hit from a greataxe with HP remaining.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Because greataxes only deal 12 damage? A first level rogue can certainly survive a hit from a greataxe with HP remaining.

There are a number of variables involved, but twelve damage is quite a bit, and is absolutely guaranteed to kill a first level rogue outright. If an attack deals much less than that, then it probably wasn't a direct hit, so we can't make any assertions about its likelihood to penetrate any type of armor.

Unless you're talking about later editions, of course, where words no longer mean anything.