4e: Improving the Line at Otharil Vale (spoilers)

[Truename]

SPOILERS ahoy, cap'n!

I'm about to run my players through The Battle for Gallo's Fend (Act IV of The Mad King's Banquet) and I love the Paragon-tier feel of the battle. The actual encounters as written... not so much. So here's an attempt at improving things. Please critique!

Goals: I want to create the feeling of a major battle with hundreds of soldiers; I want the players to be at the forefront; I don't won't things to be slow or grindy; and I don't want it to be too abstract.

Solution: I'm going to use the basic setup and tactical encounters provided in the 4e module, but replace the monsters and give the players more control. My approach is to turn squads of soldiers into swarms, similar to the Bloodspear Savage Throng in the DDI Compendium. The players will control the allied units and I'll run the enemy units. Before the battle, the players will have an opportunity to set up the battlefield.

Specifically, they'll have two in-game hours before the battle to prepare the battlefield. (The reason I've provided is that Duke Gallo doesn't want to tip his hand until the enemy troops begin to move.) In that time, their soldiers can perform 32 actions (move a 5' cube of earth, create a 5' fraise, or place caltrops and other hindering terrain in a single square). The players can also cast rituals such as Earthen Ramparts.

They also get to choose and place their units. They get two Gallo Chaplains for free and have 3,600 XP to spend on Gallo Pike Squares and Gallo Archers. (See the attached stat blocks.) To model the feeling of a real battle, the pike squares have tons of stopping power when they stand still. The archers' attacks are bursts, which the enemy swarms will be vulnerable to, but they're risky to use once the battle's been joined, as they hit nearby allies on an attack roll of 5 or less. They're also very vulnerable if enemies make it through the lines.

During the battle, each PC controls a set of allied units, as long as they stay within 20 squares. (Otherwise, I control them.) If they use the Battlefield Elocution ritual, there's no range limit.

That's the allied side. I'll put the Steppengard forces up later. Thoughts on what I have so far? I'm particularly interested in critiques of the stat blocks.

PS: The stat blocks were created with power2ool.com, which is simply awesome, and free.

 

[OnlineDM]

Cool idea! For what it's worth, I too was unhappy with the actual encounters presented for this battle, so I created my own version: Free encounters: The Battle of Otharil Vale Online Dungeon Master

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

[MENTION=78255]Truename[/MENTION].. are you going to play all the way through the campaign arc or are you stopping short of the end?

I ask because if you break out squads and platoons at 11th level, you will have a very hard time running the high level modules. I just started using squads and platoons at 20th level and it worked out very well.

OnlineDM's variant looks solid and keeps the heroes in the midst of a large scale combat. I ran this under 3x rules and really enjoyed messing with the group through the siege engines, war wizards, and occasional dragon fly-by. Basically a bunch of off-screen threats that tossed damage bombs in pretty randomly {and sometimes hit their own troops}

The stat blocks look okay, there is a thread over in HRs that I started on building units as monsters. Check it out.

summary: I recommend holding off on unit-scale combat until later in the paragon and epic tiers. Instead use lots of minions and use waves. You could also use 'demi-monsters' that either have half the standard monster hit points or a 'threshold' of 5 + 1/2 level {fx a 11th level critter would have a threshold of 10. Any hit of 5 or less doesn't do anything. 5 to 9 bloodies it. 10 or more kills it outright. This keeps minions from dying from most auto-damage/aura things}

 

[Truename]

Thanks for the suggestions! I kept the squads and swarms because I want the "big battle" feel that they give me, but I leveled them up to level 14 to reinforce that the PCs (who are level 12) aren't yet as powerful as a whole squad. (At this point, they know that they can generally take out a normal soldier in one hit, and that only elite forces and unit commanders are as powerful as they. However, they also know that people like Kelkin Thranavost completely outclass them--they faced him last night, too. ) I'll probably use some of OnlineDMs monsters for the enemies as well.

I'm not sure what I'll do about the epic tier, but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.


We played the "set up" for the battle last night. It took place while Steppengard's army was traveling. Commander Hertiage (who I promoted to commander of all infantry forces, since I hadn't used him before) introduced the line commanders (including the PCs) to the basics of military warfare, with a big drill-sergeant voice:

"For some of you, this is your first command. So, tell me, what's the most important unit on the battlefield?" A PC answered, "infantry, of course!"

"Heh. Good answer. Now, tell me WHY the infantry is the most important unit!" Silence.

"Heavy air calvary may be the most powerful forces out there. Those dragons ARE scary. But our ballista will turn them into dragon-onna-stick before they even get close! So Steppengard's gotta take out our siege towers.

"Now, you might think that he'd send in his ground calvary to get the job done. And there is nothing more frightenin' than several tons of horseflesh charginging you with a tin can sitting on top wielding a ten foot pole pointed at your heart! But our pike squares will take that charge and turn it into tinned horsemeat!

"What that means is that if Steppengard wants to take our siege towers, he's gotta break our lines. And the only way to do that is to send in his infantry. That makes infantry the most important unit on the field! Infantry stops the calvary from coming in and savaging our archers and commanders--that's you! Without infantry, the ground calvary would take our siege towers and the heavy air would take the day. So hold those lines!

"One last thing: our ballista will keep the enemy's heavy air calvary out of the fight, but watch out for their light air. They'll hop over your lines and take out your support. I also hear that Steppengard's hired some monstrous mercenaries, so watch out for them, too.

"Now, go put together your plans of battle. I want to see what you have in 45 minutes!"

At this point, I gave the players the rules for setting up the battle:

• They had 45 minutes real time to make their plans.
• They get 6000 XP to spend on pike squares (1000 ea) and archers (500 ea). (Handout with updated stat blocks attached.)
• They get two chaplains. The allied units have two healing surges each per day.
• They'll have two hours to cast rituals. The "earthen ramparts" ritual creates a ten-foot high wall, which will take four squares of movement to climb on the enemies' side.
• Their soldiers can take 32 actions during that time. A single action can move a 5' cube of earth (creating difficult terrain), create a square of damaging terrain (does 2d6 damage to units entering or starting their turn there, and is difficult terrain), or create a square of fraise (does 1d6 damage to units entering or starting there turn there, and ends a units' move action when entered).

After they set up their plan, Commander Hertiage critiqued it (asking about how the archers would be protected, and asking about how they intended to respond to light air calvary), and then we moved on to the Mage Assassination episode.

We're going to play out the battle in an extended session on New Year's weekend. Now I need to figure out the opposing forces.

 

[Truename]

I think I have the first half of the opposing forces figured out. Again, my goal is to create the feeling of a big battle, with the players at the forefront, without bogging down or getting too abstract.

I'm going to conduct two waves. I want each wave to feel very different. For the first wave, I'm focused on creating the sense of a tough ground battle. In the second wave, I want to bring in more of the fantasy element and give the players a few "oh sh*t" moments before they carry the day. Throughout, I want the players to feel like they're part of a bigger picture, and although they're tough, there's even scarier things out there.

The players already created their battle plan and fortifications in the last battle. They have a nice layout with earthen ramparts leading to two choke points. I want them to feel like those make a difference, but I also want to provide some surprises.

My XP budget for the first wave is 12,800. The PCs are level 12:

Level 14 encounter: 5,000 xp
Allied pike squares and archers: 6,000 xp
Allied chaplains*: 1,000 xp
Terrain advantage: 800 xp

*The chaplains are level 12 minions, but they can trigger 4 healing surges between them, which I figure is equivalent to an extra allied unit.

Here's how I intend to spend that budget:

1 Heavy catapult (hazard): 800 xp
8 Infantry squares: 5,600 xp
2 Liondrakes: 1,400 xp
2 Dythan's Legion Dragoons (riding Liondrakes): 1,400 xp
3 Battle trolls: 2,100 xp
1 Ogre storm shaman: 600 xp
2 Ogre ironclad: 800 xp

The heavy catapult and infantry squares are custom (see attached stat blocks). I've increased the Liondrakes' damage to MM3 standards. The dragoons will be reflavored to be dwarves rather than dragonborn, and will lose their dragon breath power. The remaining monsters are used as-is from the Compendium. I'll scale the battle to the number of players by adding or subtracting battle trolls.

The infantry squares are designed to throw off lots of minions. This will give my barbarian player something to enjoy, as he gets 20 temp hp every time he kills something. I also want the sense of chaos and mounting piles of bodies that tons of fleeing and dead minions will engender.

Tactics:

The battle will start with the heavy catapult attacking before the armies close. I've playtested this and, while it does some damage to the allied forces, its real strength is in destroying fortifications.

After the first shot from the enemy catapult, one of Gallo's siege towers (off-screen) will return fire and the opposing army will advance. The catapult will get ten rounds (five shots) before the Gallo tower zeroes in. Starting with the sixth shot, I'll roll a d20 after every shot. A roll of 16-20 means the allied siege tower destroyed the catapult.

The opposing army will appear on the board in the ninth round and move at full speed toward the allied forces. The allies will get one free flight of arrows (two if they use readied actions) and then the armies will close in the tenth round. The infantry squares will be in front and will funnel into the choke points as well as taking advantage of any gaps in the defenses created by the heavy catapult. If the choke points are full, they'll dismantle fraises (1 square per standard action) in preparation for storming the earthen ramparts.

The trolls will wade in fearlessly and do as much damage as they can wherever they can. They're particularly devastating against pike squares, so that's what they'll focus on. They can overlap with infantry squares, so they'll get up close and personal.

The ogres ironclad will protect the ogre storm shaman by staying near the shaman and marking foes that try to attack it. The shaman will use its drenching rain and lightning to disable archers, then engage with a melee hero.

The liondrakes and their dragoon riders will follow the other troops, then fly over the allied lines and attack soft targets, such as archers and mages.

I imagine that the encounter will play out with enemy infantry and trolls fighting the allied pike squares. One of the heroes (probably the barbarian) will engage the ogres, and the rest will split their attention between protecting the soft targets from the liondrakes/dragoons and taking out the trolls.

Thoughts? Critiques?

 

[constablebrew]

Great Concept

I really love the idea of using swarms for the squads! I will definitely try this out.

The only critique I have is the 25% chance for the archers to not only miss but then to also hit an ally seems too punishing. I would make it instead target a random square adjacent to the target square (roll 1d8 to decide which square).

How did the game play out?

 

[Truename]

How did the game play out?

Very well! We played yesterday. It took a lot longer than expected--I had set aside 4-6 hours for the two encounters, and we ended up taking 6 hours for the first encounter alone. (We've since decided to skip the second encounter.)

The players were engaged and interested the whole way through, despite being such a long battle. The mix of troops was good. The obstacles were balanced well--the caltrops were damaging, but not ridiculously so, and the fraises+earthen ramparts cost the enemies a turn without stopping them cold. The catapult added a nice sense of danger without being too devastating.

The archers' friendly-fire penalty worked out really well in practice--it had the simulation aspect I wanted (it's dangerous to fire into melee) and made the players think about tactics.

One thing that didn't work was making the chaplains minions; they were far too vulnerable and difficult to protect that way. I bumped them up to 45 hit points.

The other thing that didn't work so well was having the infantry squares throw off minions; it was too fiddly and they just got in the way. I liked the flavor it evoked but it didn't work in practice. We stopped doing that after the first couple of rounds.

I took pictures and hope to have time to put up a detailed description of the battle in the main 4e forum. I'll link to it from this thread when I do.