D&D 4E 4e is BROKEN if you ignore a major rule

[Ahglock]

Amazing.

I can only find my DMG at the moment, so I can't double check, but if the power really lets you stun opponents on a miss, it's broken.

By the way, why is the PC trying to miss? What happens if he hits?

Its a level 20 Blood mage daily. If you hit it does 6d6+int mod, causes 10 ongoing psychic damage and stuns the target, save end both effects.

On miss it is stunned until end of your next turn. It is burst 3, 20 range. only hits enemies.

I'm not sure why someone would want to miss since you make saves at the end of your turn so save ends is effectively at least the same as stunned until end of your next turn. Though I could totally be missing something.

 

[Sunglare]

Destructive Salutation + Orb of Inevitable Continuance + Quick Draw = BROKEN.

I've just run a game with Pydruhs, a level 22 human wizard bloodmage archamge, as the PC. He's got Destructive Salutation, indeed twice (from his Archmage), plus Arcane Mastery to let him cast it more times. He also got some 240 Orbs of Inevitable Continuance, and the Quick Draw feat.

When the opportunity comes, he casts Destructuve Salutation, trying to miss. Good chances he'll suceed missing. When he does, all the opponents in the (large) areas of effect are stunned until the end of his next turn. (He can cast this "daily" spell lots of times per day.) On the next turn, he uses an Orb of Inevitable Continuance as a minor action to prolong the stunning to until the end of his next turn, and got a turn to wreck havoc while everyone's stunned. Rinse, repeat.

If he gets the drop on Orcus, he'll drop him too.

So... my conclusion is twofold:
1) Destructive Salutation is broken. Getting a stun effect on a miss is a no-no; way too powerful. Monsters need to get a fair chance of avoiding a stun.
2) Magic items are broken. Allowing PCs to gain multiple Daily or even Encounter powers from using several identical items is legal, but just bad. A rule should be in place to limit this, even if the rule makes no sense.

It's probably best to start the game at level 1 so you can better understand how it works. Even if you let the wizard continue with his cheese he couldn't touch orcus with a 100 mile pole. Level 22? i don't think he would even be able to hit orcus on a 20 (a roll of 20 is not a automatic hit).
It's a nice spell but it is a Daily and like most daily's would shift the tide of battle pretty well in the players favor. But you are throwing epic monsters at them right? Are all the monsters mindless idoits that hudle together for the wizard to cast on them?

 

[1of3]

(a roll of 20 is not a automatic hit)

It is.

It is a critical hit only, if 20 would have hit regularly, though.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Its a level 20 Blood mage daily. If you hit it does 6d6+int mod, causes 10 ongoing psychic damage and stuns the target, save end both effects.

On miss it is stunned until end of your next turn. It is burst 3, 20 range. only hits enemies.

I'm not sure why someone would want to miss since you make saves at the end of your turn so save ends is effectively at least the same as stunned until end of your next turn. Though I could totally be missing something.

Seems a poor use of resources to deliberately miss. It's still broken, though, IMO.

 

[Danceofmasks]

I count two major rules ignored.

 

[MwaO]

I count two major rules ignored.

Seems like it is the same rule for both cases.

 

[Squire James]

I gather the intent to miss is due to the fact that the Orb can extend an "until the end of your next turn" effect but not a "save ends" effect. I submit that the Orb is a bit "broken". I would probably add some text in there that requires the condition to be caused by a successful attack. Even with that text, it's pretty powerful (think of other effects that stun like Solar Wrath, and that the world of high-paragon and epic monsters is currently rather undead and demon heavy).

 

[DracoSuave]

I gather the intent to miss is due to the fact that the Orb can extend an "until the end of your next turn" effect but not a "save ends" effect. I submit that the Orb is a bit "broken". I would probably add some text in there that requires the condition to be caused by a successful attack. Even with that text, it's pretty powerful (think of other effects that stun like Solar Wrath, and that the world of high-paragon and epic monsters is currently rather undead and demon heavy).

When stunning abilities become at-wills and therefore usable with the orb, you might have a point here.

As the orb's effect continuance only works with at-wills, you don't.

Three rules ignored.

 

[jensun]

When stunning abilities become at-wills and therefore usable with the orb, you might have a point here.

As the orb's effect continuance only works with at-wills, you don't.

Three rules ignored.

The Orb of Inevitable Continuance is a Magic Item, not the Wizard class ability.

 

[Dragonblade]

Interesting thread, but I think some of you are incorrect. Although Destructive Salutation is a power granted by the Blood Mage paragon path, its still a Wizard path, and as such saying its not a wizard power is splitting hairs. They absolutely should be able to use Destructive Salutation with their Orb of Imposition class ability. Even so, its not broken.

Here is the deal. The Orb of Imposition implement mastery ability has two features. The feature the OP mentioned in his thread by extending the Stun effect only applies to Wizard At-Wills so right there the OP's player is stymied in his attempt at a broken combo.

However, there is no reason that this Wizard PC couldn't use the first Orb of Imposition effect; the ability to apply a Save penalty to the use of Destruction Salutation. However, since a Save Ends effect only occurs on a Hit, the PC in question would definitely not want to miss.

Additionally, the magic item Orb of Inevitable Continuance would not apply at all on a Hit since it wouldn't apply to Save Ends powers. Now if he did miss and got a one round Stun, then he could use the Daily from the orb and extend it for one additional round.

There is no way to incorporate all three powers into one combo. Either he uses is his Blood Mage Daily and hits and then uses his O of I class feature to apply a saving throw penalty, or he misses and uses his O of IE item daily power to make the Stun effect last two rounds instead of one.

But regardless, its a one shot deal. Even if he uses his level 21 Archmage ability to recover Destruction Salution (which is itself a once a day power!!), he can't use O of I twice in the same encounter, nor would he be able to recover his Item daily. I suppose he could have multiples of the same orb, but again he still gets only 3 item dailies a day as an epic character. Either way he is going to be potentially blowing multiple dailies on a combo that while nice is nowhere near game breaking.