D&D 4E 4e -- Is The World Made Of Cheese?

[silentounce]

I agree. And if you can't figure out how to adjudicate a player hitting an adamantium wall with his fist without a table, or wonder if dwarves get a saving throw to avoid going prone when killed, or finds experience makes you better at things unrealistic, then perhaps the initials are undeserved. Maybe a different title should apply. I don't know what title, but I suspect it rhymes with schnoob. And, lest I forget -

You know, I see this on here a lot. Not picking on you in particular. But pointing out extremes and laughing doesn't solve anything. Of course we know that flesh vs. adamantium is going to result in bloody, pulpy fists. We also know that a person reduced to negative HP is going to fall prone. But what about an axe against a wooden tree for example? What about a mithril hammer against masonry? An acid arrow against a marble pillar? That's what he's asking for and it's completely reasonable. Just because you throw out unreasonable examples doesn't make all the other situations unreasonable as well.

Yeah, DMs could come up with hardness and resistance on the fly if they wanted to. In previous editions they didn't have to, it was in the book. And when something's in the book it tends to cut down on PC complaints as well. And at least you can assume it was playtested and some thought went into it instead of just coming up with something arbitrarily. Hell, asking for rules on how to adjudicate something doesn't make someone a bad DM. Judging from most of the OPs comments on enworld I'd say he's a pretty good one. I guess from some of your comments on here that a "real DM" doesn't need rules at all. If that were the case none of us would be posting in a forum called "D&D 4th Edition Rules," now would we?

 

[Otterscrubber]

I'm pretty happy to leave this one to DM fiat, really. Just apply a little common sense. The only problems you're having here is ones that you're making for yourself by carrying rules designed to cover most situations to ridiculous extremes.

What is it about Internet forums that causes people to carry out thought experiments they'd never ever attempt in a real game and pretend they're serious?

Very good question, if you find out let me know. To OP: I mean seriously, if you're game is this detail oriented, are you still playing a game? Do you need a rule to tell you that a wooden spoon is useless for digging into rock? At what point do you start using your imagination/creativity?

 

[MrGrenadine]

To be precise, stabbing folks with swords is not an odd occurrence within the context of the fantasy genre, whereas routinely carving your way through walls is.

This should not need to be stated.

Why do you get to decide what is and isn't odd in the context of the fantasy genre?

Maybe you could let folks decide what they think is odd or not for themselves ?


MrG

 

[eleran]

You know, I see this on here a lot. Not picking on you in particular. But pointing out extremes and laughing doesn't solve anything. Of course we know that flesh vs. adamantium is going to result in bloody, pulpy fists. We also know that a person reduced to negative HP is going to fall prone. But what about an axe against a wooden tree for example? What about a mithril hammer against masonry? An acid arrow against a marble pillar? That's what he's asking for and it's completely reasonable. Just because you throw out unreasonable examples doesn't make all the other situations unreasonable as well.

Yeah, DMs could come up with hardness and resistance on the fly if they wanted to. In previous editions they didn't have to, it was in the book. And when something's in the book it tends to cut down on PC complaints as well. And at least you can assume it was playtested and some thought went into it instead of just coming up with something arbitrarily. Hell, asking for rules on how to adjudicate something doesn't make someone a bad DM. Judging from most of the OPs comments on enworld I'd say he's a pretty good one. I guess from some of your comments on here that a "real DM" doesn't need rules at all. If that were the case none of us would be posting in a forum called "D&D 4th Edition Rules," now would we?

Part of the problem there tho is that with SO many rules, if I have to look up each table every time someone puts axe to tree or hammer to masonry (I dont see acid doing anything to marble, thats one of the reasons kitchen counters were made of marble back in the day.) nothing is going to get done while up these endless tables. But, if I make a ruling on a case by case basis, I own that ruling and my group and I make a note of, but in all likelihood I wont have to refer to the notes again because one of the 7 of us is going to remember it.

Not that I expect my arguments to sway you. You dont really care how I play. As long as we can each have fun at our respective tables, why should it make a difference what I do?

 

[eleran]

Why do you get to decide what is and isn't odd in the context of the fantasy genre?

Maybe you could let folks decide what they think is odd or not for themselves ?


MrG

First, he didnt decide, he stated his opinion.


Second, He actually has exactly as much right to his opinion of what is and isnt odd as you do. He is just secure enough in the courage of his convictions to not have to type IMO before every post.

 

[MrGrenadine]

He actually has exactly as much right to his opinion of what is and isnt odd as you do. He is just secure enough in the courage of his convictions to not have to type IMO before every post.

You're agreeing with me, you just haven't realized it yet.


MrG

 

[hong]

Maybe your fantasy genre doesn't include the possibility of tunneling under the walls of the fortified city by night, or cutting out of prison with the magic knife the wizard concealed with prestidigitation,

"Routinely."

I get that you would rather just tell the fighter "No, you can't hack your way down to the next dungeon level with your adamantine sword," but I'd rather say yes to what is essentially a reasonable solution to the unreasonable problem of the dungeon,

If you believe that dungeons are unreasonable in a game called "Dungeons and Dragons", you are definitely thinking too hard about fantasy.

 

[hong]

Why do you get to decide what is and isn't odd in the context of the fantasy genre?

Maybe you could let folks decide what they think is odd or not for themselves ?

You will note that I am not the one having problems.

 

[Fifth Element]

Why do you get to decide what is and isn't odd in the context of the fantasy genre?

Maybe you could let folks decide what they think is odd or not for themselves ?

Have you not seen hong's postcount?

Also, what eleran said.

 

[silentounce]

I mean seriously, if you're game is this detail oriented, are you still playing a game? Do you need a rule to tell you that a wooden spoon is useless for digging into rock? At what point do you start using your imagination/creativity?

Well, I guess that all of us that played D&D before now weren't playing a game then. Have you seen the 1st Ed. AD&D DMG? Or even 3.5? Was the game that all of this is based on, that has enriched millions of lives devoid of imagination/creativity? Come on....

And, as a side note, depending on the type of wood and the type of rock it just might not be useless.

I dont see acid doing anything to marble, thats one of the reasons kitchen counters were made of marble back in the day.

See, that's exactly my point. I didn't know that fact. Marble immune to acid. This is the kind of thing that could be included. Yeah, I know that's overkill. But is a hardness table that much to ask for?

If you believe that dungeons are unreasonable in a game called "Dungeons and Dragons", you are definitely thinking too hard about fantasy.

I see you've acquired the new 4th edition feat, Taking Things Out of Context.