D&D 3E/3.5 4e Levels 1-30 = 3e Levels 1-30?

[Bullgrit]

I haven't seen this explicitly stated anywhere, so I'm asking here:

I understand that D&D4 will cover levels 1-30 in the core rules. Is this the regular D&D3 1-20 levels plus 21-30, or are the designers stretching the regular D&D3 1-20 levels out to 1-30?

I'm considering an E6 game for my next campaign, which won't happen till after D&D4 has come out. I expect I'll like D&D4, and so will probably use it for the E6 campaign, but I'm wondering if the levels will be altered in the new rules.

In other words [less words] will D&D4 levels 1-6 (or 1-10) be essentially the same as D&D3 levels 1-6 (or 1-10)? If the scale will be different, I probably shouldn't be putting too much thought into the campaign world until I see what the "new" E6 will be in D&D4.

Bullgrit
Total Bullgrit

 

[Nifft]

No.

4e level 1 ~= 3e level 4.

4e level 30 ~= 3e level 14-16.

Roughly.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Pygon]

The best I've heard is that 4e 1-30 = 3e 1-20, but 4e level 30 will be a little more powerful than 3e level 20.

EDIT: Okay, maybe not. 4e 30 = 3e 16? Bleh!

From the 4e info page:

"Chris Perkins on the rate of advancement: power level is increasing (although not by a "startling" amount); 20th level in 4th Edition is a little more powerful than 20th level in 3rd Edition. However, you'll reach 30th level in the same time you used to reach 20th level -- "

Unless something changed.

 

[Patlin]

4e level 30 ~= 3e level 14-16.

Really? My vague impression was 4e 30 = 3e ~25. That's pure speculation, but if you have a specific source I'd be interested.

 

[Nifft]

That was my impression of what they said about stretching out "the sweet spot" (levels 4-14).

However, that's based on a press release. My information and interpretation could both be wrong regarding the high end.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Pygon]

I think all they meant was that they acknowledge that 6-14 or so in 3e is where the math works best in the game. They are carefully engineering 4e so that the math is similar across all the levels, not that 4e 1-30 = 3e 6-14.

 

[Doug McCrae]

I think what they mean by stretching the 4-14 sweet spot is that the game will now work from 1-30. 4e level 1 certainly seems like it will be more powerful than 3e level 1, for instance 4e L1s have a lot more hit points. But we don't yet know what the power curve for high levels will look like. Will casters get plane shift and teleport at 9th level, or will they have to wait until 15th, 20th or 25th level? Will there be wish and shapechange at 17th level, 27th level or never?

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

When asked if levels 21-30 were just stretching the lower levels out more or if they were actually what epic levels used to be, the answer given was "they are now epic as core"(or something similar).

What they were explaining to us at GenCon from everything I heard was that they discovered that the MATH is what made levels 6-14 the "sweet spot". As in, you had just about the right chance to hit the enemy, the enemy had just about the right chance to hit you and the damage people were doing compared to the hitpoints opponents had made about the right duration combats.

I gathered that spells would move around such that no matter what the actual numbers were at each level 1-30, the chance to hit and all of the above information would have the math work out relatively the same.

 

[psionotic]

I think what they mean by stretching the 4-14 sweet spot is that the game will now work from 1-30. 4e level 1 certainly seems like it will be more powerful than 3e level 1, for instance 4e L1s have a lot more hit points. But we don't yet know what the power curve for high levels will look like. Will casters get plane shift and teleport at 9th level, or will they have to wait until 15th, 20th or 25th level? Will there be wish and shapechange at 17th level, 27th level or never?

Right, the sweet spot of 4-14 is where the game is currently (3.x) balanced and 'fun.' By stretching it, they are endeavoring to increase the game's fun levels from 1-30. It has little or nothing to do with actual power level, but more to do with where the system math lines up.

My guess is that 4e will be between the same and slightly higher power on average than 3e games. BUT, many encounter and game breaking spells and effects will not be available until later than they are now.

 

[BBQ]

I have a feeling it'll be about the same, as in you'll be facing roughly the same sort of threats at level 30 in 4e as you faced at level 30 in 3e, 2e, and 1e.