D&D 4E 4e Monster Manual excerpt

[Shadeus]

A few observations:

• Apparently Init is modified by level. I guess maybe I was the only one not to know that.

• No magic/spell resistance for either one. Of course, maybe the very high saves are a reflection of their "magic resistance"

• Succubus is now a devil instead of a demon! It took them 4 editions to make this change.

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

The war devil is disgusting. I could definitely put that teleport power to good effect.

These monsters look excellent. I'm really excited.

 

[Cam Banks]

Nobody has commented on the Change Shape? It seems as if it's going to be just as annoying as it always was, unless the rules on page 280 are really, really well-written.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[jasin]

How would you change this?

Put some effort into conveying what's happening and suggest that the victim reacts accordingly. If the succubus makes you fall in love with her, mention that, and suggest that the victim should treat her as a lover (so killing her pet nightmare is inappropriate, and so is running away to avoid taking attacks intended for her). If she's so beautiful that you can't stand the thought of anything harming her even though you know she's a dangerous fiend, mention that (so killing her nightmare is perfectly reasonable, and so is running away).

Powers that are just mechanics to be described as the players see fit are fine for something like the malebranche's trident attack, but when it's mental influence, especially imperfect mental influence, some sort of flavour text that gives an idea of how your mind is influenced really helps.

 

[Benimoto]

Nobody has commented on the Change Shape? It seems as if it's going to be just as annoying as it always was, unless the rules on page 280 are really, really well-written.

It looks like Change Shape is now just Disguise Self in a different package. I thought the annoying part of shapechange in 3rd edition is how it let you use some of the attacks and defenses of your new form. I don't see anything to indicate that's the case in 4e.

 

[BryonD]

Charm no longer
1) sucks
2) is painfully vague requiring the DM and the player of the charmed character to spend a half hour arguing about what the PC is obliged to do.

That's pretty worthy.

If your complete definition of "charm" is (A) will not attack and (B) will interpose self in way of attacks then yeah, you are right.

 

[Cadfan]

Change shape looks fine to me, given what little we have to go on.

It was Polymorph that always used to be the problem. I don't remember anyone having trouble with Disguise Self.

 

[jasin]

Nobody has commented on the Change Shape? It seems as if it's going to be just as annoying as it always was, unless the rules on page 280 are really, really well-written.

For a succubus, all Change Shape needs to do is change her shape. She's not going to be shapeshifting into dire wolves or dragons, so the rules could be something along the lines of "you keep all of your own stats, you just look different".

 

[hong]

Change shape looks fine to me, given what little we have to go on.

It was Polymorph that always used to be the problem. I don't remember anyone having trouble with Disguise Self.

I made a prestige class with Disguise Self at will. That was awesome fun.

 

[jasin]

You suffering here without the full ruleset. The power description is an exception based on whatever the Charm keyword gives you. My guess is look for something similar to the Charm Spell in 3e. Since the spell did not give mechanics for using Charmed Creatures as meat shields we get the exception in the power description.

I guess they view you as a friend and would have to act appropriately.

That's what I hope, and why I qualified my complaint in parentheses.