D&D 4E 4e Monster Manual excerpt

[Steely Dan]

It looks like Change Shape is now just Disguise Self in a different package.

Or maybe like these veil abilities (rakshasa, hag etc) – appears as any humanoid of its choice, DC 25 Insight check pierces veil (or direct sunlight in the case of the hag).

 

[Cam Banks]

For a succubus, all Change Shape needs to do is change her shape. She's not going to be shapeshifting into dire wolves or dragons, so the rules could be something along the lines of "you keep all of your own stats, you just look different".

If it's purely cosmetic, then it's a good thing.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[Dragonblade]

I like the new succubus. No surprise there, eh? I also see that HSB, Derren, Bryon and friends do not. No surprise there either.

But one of the reasons I like it is because of something that hong said. If the PCs are fighting her then she has already failed. The succubus isn't a fiend designed to fight. She is a devil that shapechanges into the king's long lost love and whispers into his ear behind the throne.

She keeps the king under control not through some game mechanic, but through seduction, carefully constructed lies, and by playing on his emotions, jealousies, passions, and so on. In short, she is a temptress and her primary purpose for being is not as a foe the PCs beat on. She a plot device and RP obstacle rather than a combat obstacle.

 

[sckeener]

missing powers?

Do you think they are going to revisit some of these classic monsters later? like when they put out supplements for say summoning...

comparing some of the special powers from previous editions:

3.5 edition brief highlights
Special Attacks: Energy drain, spell-like abilities, summon tanar'ri
Special Qualities: Damage reduction 10/cold iron or good, darkvision 60 ft., immunity to electricity and poison, resistance to acid 10, cold 10, and fire 10, spell resistance 18, telepathy 100 ft., tongues
Spell-Like Abilities: At will—charm monster (DC 22), detect good, detect thoughts (DC 20), ethereal jaunt (self plus 50 pounds of objects only), polymorph (humanoid form only, no limit on duration), suggestion (DC 21), greater teleport (self plus 50 pounds of objects only).
Summon Tanar'ri (Sp): Once per day a succubus can attempt to summon 1 vrock with a 30% chance of success.

2nd ed Highlights
Special Attacks: Energy Drain
Special Defenses: +2 or better weapons to hit, immune to fire, never surprised
Magic Resistance: 30%
At will spell like powers:
become Ethereal, as if using oil of etherealness
Charm person
clairaudience
esp
plane shift
shape change, to a humanoid form of approximately their own height and weight only
Gate in a single balor 40%

1st ed highlights
Special attacks: energy drain
Special defenses: +1 or better weapon to hit
Magic Resistance: 70%
At will spell like powers:
Become Ethereal, as if using oil of etherealness
Charm Person
ESP
Clairaudience
Suggestion
Shape Change (any humanoid form of approximately their own height and weight only)
40% of Gating type IV (70%), Type VI (25%), or a prince/lord (5%)​

Gone are the summoning, the ethereal jaunt, the spell resistance, the tongues, teleport, the detect good, the detect thoughts, telepathy, charm monster, suggestion, immunities (unless that is going to be under the devil type)

I just can't help but feel disappointed in this 4e succubus...

.

 

[DonAdam]

People really think its not powerful enough? With its defenses, a +14 vs. will, and flight, I think it would normally wipe the floor with a first level party. Dominate is double powerful, because it means that they can't attack you and they attack their comrades. And that's just generic succubus, not the Julia Roberts succubus that has a name and you take home to pamper. Julia would be elite or even solo.

This is not to say that victory is guaranteed. Certainly dice and circumstances matter. As Dr. Strangemonkey knows, all it takes is a blanket and some Sovereign Glue.

The two things that stand out on the succubus:
1) Touch isn't necrotic, though it sounds like maybe it would be.

2) If a charmed person can throw themselves in front of an attack, can an uncharmed defender do it for an ally? I think it would annoy the hell out of my players if they figured out that asymmetry. (Parenthetically in before any absurd "if you're charmed you're willing to risk yourself" psychological explanations. Players control what their characters try.)

 

[Jack99]

I like the new succubus. No surprise there, eh? I also see that HSB, Derren, Bryon and friends do not. No surprise there either.

But one of the reasons I like it is because of something that hong said. If the PCs are fighting her then she has already failed. The succubus isn't a fiend designed to fight. She is a devil that shapechanges into the king's long lost love and whispers into his ear behind the throne.

She keeps the king under control not through some game mechanic, but through seduction, carefully constructed lies, and by playing on his emotions, jealousies, passions, and so on. In short, she is a temptress and her primary purpose for being is not as a foe the PCs beat on. She a plot device and RP obstacle rather than a combat obstacle.

Are you saying that the 4e MM has a monster not specifically designed to mindlessly hack away at the players? Get out of here....

 

[ThirdWizard]

Gone are the summoning, the ethereal jaunt, the spell resistance, the tongues, teleport, the detect good, the detect thoughts, telepathy, charm monster, suggestion, immunities (unless that is going to be under the devil type)

I just can't help but feel disappointed in this 4e succubus...

Summoning: Handled by rituals. Remember, it's hard for devils to make it into the World, so summoning is pretty much out. If they want to bring other devils in, they'll have to go through those things mentioned in the article.

Ethereal Jaunt, Teleport, Detect Thoughts: These have pretty much been subsumed into skills. Now the monsters don't need thes things as much, as they can sneak about, use bluff and insight to read people and convince them of things, and more! They're far more capable, since they don't need magic to do things these things anymore.

Charm: Yeah, they have that.

Spell Resistance: This has been subsumed. Spells no longer auto-hit, which was one of the main reasons for SR in 3e. When power word kill is cast on a pit fiend, there needs to be some kind of defense. Luckily, this is no more.

Immunities: Immunities are mostly gone from the game itself.

Tongues: Check out the language Supernal for this.

Detect Good: Out out out. As a bonus, Detect Evil being out of the game means the succubus can move about more freely!

Hope that helps!

 

[Derren]

+
She keeps the king under control not through some game mechanic, but through seduction, carefully constructed lies, and by playing on his emotions, jealousies, passions, and so on. In short, she is a temptress and her primary purpose for being is not as a foe the PCs beat on. She a plot device and RP obstacle rather than a combat obstacle.

Sounds as if the Succubus should be a solo monster...

 

[Danzauker]

Malebranche is a French name, and should thus be pronounced as if in French ( mȧl bräns̸h′ )

If it's taken from Dante's The Divine Comedy, then it's Italian, not French.

By the way, it means more or less "evil claws".

 

[DandD]

Summoning: Handled by rituals. Remember, it's hard for devils to make it into the World, so summoning is pretty much out. If they want to bring other devils in, they'll have to go through those things mentioned in the article.

Ethereal Jaunt, Teleport, Detect Thoughts: These have pretty much been subsumed into skills. Now the monsters don't need thes things as much, as they can sneak about, use bluff and insight to read people and convince them of things, and more! They're far more capable, since they don't need magic to do things these things anymore.

Charm: Yeah, they have that.

Spell Resistance: This has been subsumed. Spells no longer auto-hit, which was one of the main reasons for SR in 3e. When power word kill is cast on a pit fiend, there needs to be some kind of defense. Luckily, this is no more.

Immunities: Immunities are mostly gone from the game itself.

Tongues: Check out the language Supernal for this.

Detect Good: Out out out. As a bonus, Detect Evil being out of the game means the succubus can move about more freely!

Hope that helps!

Yep, totally agree. According to the game designers, stuff like teleportation across the dimensions and summoning allies for long-term effects is now handled by ritual-plot devices, not inherent abilities. The Succubus now has to act smart.