D&D 4E 4e Monster Manual excerpt

[Mentat55]

I agree, the tactics listed for the succubus are not as sound as they could be, though it is probably the simplest way to make its Charming Kiss ability do its job. However, imagine this:

Succubus and 4 other baddies face off against a fighter, rogue, ranger, cleric, and wizard.

Of course, the fighter and rogue want to mix it up. The succubus has other ideas -- she charms the fighter, making it so he will jump in the way of attacks. Not a problem, says the fighter, he just goes after the other enemies -- but of course those enemies will try to stay around the succubus, forcing the fighter to move adjacent to her to attack them (and thus protect her from the fighter's allies).

The succubus then dominates the rogue, using the rogue's melee striker hitting power to harass the cleric, or maybe even the back rank of the wizard and ranger. Heck, she could even tell the rogue to attack her -- and then have the fighter absorb the damage!

Seems like it could be a lot of fun, and suddenly all those positioning attacks seem very useful, to generate distance between the succubus and her charmed victim.

 

[Derren]

but of course those enemies will try to stay around the succubus

Nice target for the wizards (non fire) AOE spells.

 

[AZRogue]

You know, I wish someone from WotC would come in and clarify, because reading the succubus's tactics, namely the "It then uses charming kiss on a dominated foe, keeping him or her nearby while it attacks other enemies with its corrupting touch" it sure sounds like she CAN control the Kissed character's movement, doesn't it? The text, as written, implies that, I think.

 

[frankthedm]

The trident slide effect is really potent. Unlike a push or pull that enforce a direction, as long as a clear path can be traced to the square the war devil wants you in, it can drop you off on the opposite side of itself.

I'm confident this is actually supposed to emulate the devil heaving the victim up and over itself, but since the ability has to run on established terminology, 'slide' works well enough.

 

[Dausuul]

You know, I wish someone from WotC would come in and clarify, because reading the succubus's tactics, namely the "It then uses charming kiss on a dominated foe, keeping him or her nearby while it attacks other enemies with its corrupting touch" it sure sounds like she CAN control the Kissed character's movement, doesn't it? The text, as written, implies that, I think.

I'm guessing it's the domination that lets her keep the foe nearby, not the charm effect.

 

[AZRogue]

The trident slide effect is really potent. Unlike a push or pull that enforce a direction, as long as a clear path can be traced to the square the war devil wants you in, it can drop you off on the opposite side of itself.


I'm confident this is actually supposed to emulate the devil heaving the victim up and over itself, but since the ability has to run on established terminology, 'slide' works well enough.

Laying it out like that, it DOES look nasty. Lots of potential there.

Where's my lava pit? My kingdom for a lava pit!!!

 

[AZRogue]

I'm guessing it's the domination that lets her keep the foe nearby, not the charm effect.

The Dominate lets her move the target in for the Kiss, but then it's gone next round. And she isn't still using Dominate because she is using her Melee attack, corrupting touch.

 

[sckeener]

They are probably partially gone because crossing planar boundaries is going to be handled different, however, when you look at those abilities they are basically "escape" abilities. So they can be replaced with more mundane ways to sneak about for the most part as well as some clever planning on the monsters' parts.

I don't know...I didn't consider them escape abilities, but out of combat abilities that the monster has innate, unable to lose, and destroyed when they were killed.

If the method is purely mundane, then it is discoverable by the players. Which is fine if the succubus was just sneaking down the hall, but if she was popping across the world...well that means the players now have a means or a chance to do the same.

It certainly made it easier when the 'magic item' (the succubus) died and I didn't have to worry about items/places falling into player's hands.

 

[Ulthwithian]

It would seem, from both write-ups, that when fighting devils, you'd best be able to out-tactics them, or you're going to be in a plane of hurt.

 

[Derren]

The Dominate lets her move the target in for the Kiss, but then it's gone next round. And she isn't still using Dominate because she is using her Melee attack, corrupting touch.

And dominating the target again counts as attack and removes the charm.