D&D 4E 4e Monster Manual excerpt

[Fallen Seraph]

One thing I think we should take note with the Charming Kiss is that the Charmed Ally throwing himself infront of the Succubi to defend her is a Secondary Attack.

So, if this was the only affect the Charming Kiss has it should be the only attack.

Thus, I think this is actually a two-pronged ability, the first initial attack causes an ordinary Charm affect.

The Secondary Attack, is this one where the PC/NPC/Monster interposes itself and intercepts attacks against the Succubi.

So potentially, you can have a PC who is under the Charm affects of the Succubi, but never throws himself infront of her.

 

[AZRogue]

One thing I think we should take note with the Charming Kiss is that the Charmed Ally throwing himself infront of the Succubi to defend her is a Secondary Attack.

So, if this was the only affect the Charming Kiss has it should be the only attack.

Thus, I think this is actually a two-pronged ability, the first initial attack causes an ordinary Charm affect.

The Secondary Attack, is this one where the PC/NPC/Monster interposes itself and intercepts attacks against the Succubi.

That would be interesting, though even more unclear on the writer's part. I read it as the succubus has to HIT to land her Kiss, then has to HIT again, vs. Will, to get the ability to work.

 

[Cam Banks]

If it's taken from Dante's The Divine Comedy, then it's Italian, not French.

By the way, it means more or less "evil claws".

I always thought it was "evil horn." Wasn't the 1e malebranche the horned devil, which later became the cornugon in 2e? Checking the 1e MM, I see that I am correct on both counts.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[Fallen Seraph]

That would be interesting, though even more unclear on the writer's part. I read it as the succubus has to HIT to land her Kiss, then has to HIT again, vs. Will, to get the ability to work.

Yeah, but that wouldn't make sense in trying to speed up the game, it would make sense to simply roll that one hit.

I think just the fact that it is called a Secondary Attack is telling, since there has to have been an initial attack that succeeded in doing something.

Which I like, it shows that while a Succubi can charm someone quite easily, she cannot sometime overpower them to the extent that they would sacrifice themselves for her.

 

[Derren]

One thing I think we should take note with the Charming Kiss is that the Charmed Ally throwing himself infront of the Succubi to defend her is a Secondary Attack.

So, if this was the only affect the Charming Kiss has it should be the only attack.

Thus, I think this is actually a two-pronged ability, the first initial attack causes an ordinary Charm affect.

The Secondary Attack, is this one where the PC/NPC/Monster interposes itself and intercepts attacks against the Succubi.

So potentially, you can have a PC who is under the Charm affects of the Succubi, but never throws himself infront of her.

As I understand it the Succubus must first make a normal melee attack vs AC to actually kiss the target. If that attack succeeds then the Succubus makes a second attack vs the targets Will and if that succeeds to the target is charmed. If either one of those attack fails nothing happens.

 

[Kunimatyu]

The trident slide effect is really potent. Unlike a push or pull that enforce a direction, as long as a clear path can be traced to the square the war devil wants you in, it can drop you off on the opposite side of itself.

I'm confident this is actually supposed to emulate the devil heaving the victim up and over itself, but since the ability has to run on established terminology, 'slide' works well enough.

That's pure awesome -- you can have the devil drop an enemy into a square adjacent to another devil, then swap positions with a different devil, then have those two (likely flanking) devils make basic attacks on the target!

Devils may not be Lawful anymore, but man they have the greater-than-the-sum-of-its-parts team tactics down in spades now.

 

[tomBitonti]

So, can PCs interpose themselves any time when a ally next to them is attacked or are they strangely only possible to do this when charmed by a Succubus?

I had the same thought.

Also, I'm wondering about the limits on this:

Secondary Attack: +12 vs. Will; the target cannot attack the succubus, and if the target is adjacent to the succubus when the succubus is targeted by a melee or a ranged attack, the target interposes itself and becomes the target of the attack instead. The effects last until the succubus or one of its allies attacks the target or until the succubus dies.

It seems better for the Succubus to move away from the target, and gradually charm the entire opposition. Eventually, none will be able to attack the succubus, leaving her free to dominate them in turn and have them render themselves helpless.

If there are any creatures that make it impossible to target a creature for a round, coupling that with a Succubus would make this more potent.

Also, does the effect not wear off at the end of the encounter? Is the target permanently charmed? And, how does the target know who is an ally of the Succubus? (I'm presuming that there are general rules elsewhere to cover these details, but if not, there is a bit of a problem working these details in more role playing scenarios. If the succubus stays in disguise as the local barmaid, and kiss / charms the players over time, what do they do when they encounter her at her lair during the climactic battle?)

[EDIT: BLEH, I missed the line that limits the kiss effect to one target at a time. I still wonder about issues such as does it matter if the kissee has awareness of the attack, or if the succubus must have awareness of the attack, and where to consider the the kissee when the attack occurs -- for example, if that moves the kissee into a flank. Also, I find curious that the kissee need not be "oriented" according to the current form of the Succubus, which makes for interesting role playing moments.]

 

[Gargazon]

* 1 succubus (level 9 controller)
* 2 snaketongue assassins (level 9 lurker)
* 2 crushgrip constrictors (level 9 soldier)

Is it just me, or does it look like the Yuan-Ti have now thrown in their lot with the devils? I'm not complaining, it's just they seemed to be more the demon-worshipping type in 3.5. Or maybe that was just because of that one adventure with the obyrith... ah, nevermind

I also imagine that Snaketongues are what they're calling purebloods now, as 'pureblood' always kinda bugged me ("It's a pureblood? But it's not snake-like at all! The abominations are all 'RAWR! IMMAH SNAKE!' and they're an abomination of the snake people? I'm so confused!"). What was an abomination now looks to be the 'true' Yuan-Ti. And I think that's awesome.

I also love how evil the War Devil looks like he'll be! Especially with a legion of legionnaire legion devils to work with

 

[Derren]

It seems better for the Succubus to move away from the target, and gradually charm the entire opposition. Eventually, none will be able to attack the succubus, leaving her free to dominate them in turn and have them render themselves helpless.

Like me you missed that the Succubus can only have one person charmed at any time.

 

[ThirdWizard]

If the method is purely mundane, then it is discoverable by the players. Which is fine if the succubus was just sneaking down the hall, but if she was popping across the world...well that means the players now have a means or a chance to do the same.

That's a plot device. In that case, the devil can sacrifice a child every time she needs to power her teleportation circle, or some other ghastly ritual (maybe even tie it to sex in the case of a succubus), that can both explain how she can be the adviser for both kingdoms that are at war as well as give the PCs clues as to what is going on. Hmm... my players stay out... darn, too late!