D&D 4E 4e Monster Manual excerpt

[Voss]

Charm no longer
1) sucks
2) is painfully vague requiring the DM and the player of the charmed character to spend a half hour arguing about what the PC is obliged to do.

That's pretty worthy.

Sort of. Its still written pretty badly though, since there is nothing at all that prevents the character from walking away after being kissed- and thus, the target never has to interpose himself (and if the succubus takes an opportunity attack, the charm breaks anyway). The can't attack is about all you can really count on getting out of it, unless the succubus tags along after her new 'puppy' rather than the other way around.

The must hit twice mechanic is a little clumsy, too. Just make it a melee will attack and call it a day. The tactical advice is pretty poor too. Dominating and charming the same target isn't worth much beyond keeping your new meatshild close. Dominate one and charm a second, and you've stopped two potential attackers, one of whom is hitting the other opponents...

 

[Professor Phobos]

Sort of. Its still written pretty badly though, since there is nothing at all that prevents the character from walking away after being kissed- and thus, the target never has to interpose himself (and if the succubus takes an opportunity attack, the charm breaks anyway). The can't attack is about all you can really count on getting out of it, unless the succubus tags along after her new 'puppy' rather than the other way around.

This kind of rules lawyer stuff kills games. Look, folks- if you're charmed in this manner, then you're clearly infatuated with the succubus. Ham that up! Defend its honor! Recite poetry in its name! Go nuts!

Don't try to exploit every damn loophole just to get out of it. You've been mystically seduced by a succubus- enjoy yourself!

 

[DandD]

Dominating somebody has been toned down. The target only is dominated for one round only. The tactic described is to bring one target close to her (like for example the poorly-armoured mage, or more likely, the striker classes like the rogue and the ranger, who probably have mediocre AC and willpower), so that she might then enthrall them with her charm kiss. It makes sense. Also, normally, the Succubus is supposed to have some allies in battle, not being a single-monster-encounter like in D&D 3.X.

 

[Derren]

This kind of rules lawyer stuff kills games. Look, folks- if you're charmed in this manner, then you're clearly infatuated with the succubus. Ham that up! Defend its honor! Recite poetry in its name! Go nuts!

How does being charmed by the Succubus prevent you from killing those nasty, evil devils which fight your companions just a few squares away? Charm does not remove any affiliations. It only adds another one and to the Succubus only.

 

[Dausuul]

the new pitfiend image is working now: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/excerpt_4EMM_pitfiend.jpg

Oh hell yes.

That looks soooooo much better than any previous edition of the pit fiend. (Though the 1E version does have a certain old-school charm.) And unlike some of the art we've seen, the pit fiend actually got better in the transition between black-and-white-sketch and full-color.

I dunno about the background, though. The pit fiend's posture suggests that he's standing on top of a rocky crag or something, bellowing orders to his minions down below; his legs are clearly braced to support his weight, and you can see the toes on his left foot curling around whatever he's standing on. The "chaotic energy swirlies" background is a bit jarring.

Still, background or no background, the pit fiend himself looks bad-ass.

 

[Derren]

Oh hell yes.

That looks soooooo much better than any previous edition of the pit fiend. (Though the 1E version does have a certain old-school charm.)

Nice
Except that its left foot looks a bit strange to me. It would imo be very awkward to walk with those feet.

 

[AZRogue]

Eh, the pitfiend looks all right. Kind of stereotyped. I was expecting something more anime, to tell the truth, and by that I mean more exaggerated and stylized. A bit too plain for my tastes. I would have preferred more exaggerated horns, weapon, muscles, etc.

Obviously tastes differ. It's all good. Some of the other art is on the money, at least.

 

[lutecius]

You all missed the best point of the new succubus: she no longer drains you! So you can finally make some sweet love all night long....

She could definitely use some vampiric hp drain. That way she would have one more reason to keep her meat-shield close in a fight.

The succubus illustration gets tamer with every new edition.

What?

Not hot, not awe-inspiring either. I suspect the original sketch, like a lot of the art in the preview books, looked somewhat better than the painted version.
The pose is ok, but the heavy colours, the lack of detail are way too cartoonish. Look at that hair! If this is the concept art I shudder to think what the minis will look like.
Or was it intentional? Maybe they decided it was more age appropriate than that.

I don’t think it has been mentioned yet, but the malebranche pic is from the Fiendish Codex II so maybe there will be some new art in the MM and there’s still hope for the succubus. If not… SHAME ON YOU, WOTC!!! BAD!!!

 

[Kishin]

Sounds as if the Succubus should be a solo monster...

On what basis? All manipulators are now solo monsters?

 

[Voss]

This kind of rules lawyer stuff kills games. Look, folks- if you're charmed in this manner, then you're clearly infatuated with the succubus. Ham that up! Defend its honor! Recite poetry in its name! Go nuts!

Don't try to exploit every damn loophole just to get out of it. You've been mystically seduced by a succubus- enjoy yourself!

This isn't rules lawyer stuff. This is the complete and total effect of the power: you can't attack it, and if you're next to it, you have to take the hit. That is the entire list of what her charm does.

If the game is going to be designed around short and simple powers, you have to deal with them as written, not inflict additional conditions based on how you think it should work. You can do that in your home brew, but the powers (monster or PC ones) are designed to do exactly what they say and no more. Its part of the benefits and drawbacks of this design system. The benefit will show up with stuff thats currently inflicted with a hideous amount of excess verbiage, like polymorph. Or... dispel magic:

Like the new dispel magic- it doesn't make sense to me that it can't dispel buffs or curses or whatever, but changing it so it affects more than zones and summons changes the spell (and thus, the wizard) radically.

The downside is, they occasionally aren't that evocative, and are clearly just game abilities, as this is.