Another thing, does the paladins mark count as an attack (no roll)? If not then the paladin could simply mark the Succubus when she charms him. That way the Succubus either takes damage (or whatever the paladins mark does now) and takes -2 to attack or breaks the charm by attacking the paladin.
D&D 4E 4e Monster Manual excerpt
- Thread starter jaelis
- Start date
DandD
First Post
The Dominate-then-Charm-Kiss-tactic is absolutely valid. And instead of taking out the melee tank, it's better to keep the controller or the mobile striker close, so that they can't heal their comrades, nor blast the allies of the Succubus because she might be too near them.
And Charm shouldn't become another Save-or-Sit-out-for-the-rest-of-the-battle, which is why the player character can attack her other allies or get away from her. If outside of battle she wants him to be at her side, all she has to do is to dominate him once again. The victim won't be able to harm her anyway.
And it's better if the Succubus has to use her more mundane seduction skills instead of the automatic I-win-effect that the Charm Spell of previous editions provided.
And Charm shouldn't become another Save-or-Sit-out-for-the-rest-of-the-battle, which is why the player character can attack her other allies or get away from her. If outside of battle she wants him to be at her side, all she has to do is to dominate him once again. The victim won't be able to harm her anyway.
And it's better if the Succubus has to use her more mundane seduction skills instead of the automatic I-win-effect that the Charm Spell of previous editions provided.
WhatGravitas
Explorer
This may also be due to seeing the devils (incl. the pit fiend) more often than the demons. Devils are about being teamworkers and very tactically minded. I guess that demons are far more often big brute monsters with everything but piddly damage.Shazman said:
Cheers, LT.
As written, I don't get it.
The succubus gets a meat shield, but so does her meat shield. If any of her allies attack the meat shield, then she loses the meat shield. So, the party can't attack the succubus, but the bad guys can't attack the meat shield. So, the meat shield is free to attack the bad guys essentially using the succubus as a shield. Or, the bad guys say screw you to the succubus, and break her charm. So, as written, it's a great power if she's alone, not so good if she has allies.
Can this be right?
Just forget the succubus for a minute.
WotC released an excerpt from the 4e MM, presumably to generate excitement about the new edition. There can be no doubt that, as written, the Charming Kiss power is ambiguous. The second paragraph states that the effect can be sustained by a once a day kissing. What effect? Interposing himself? Why is he still there? I could think of some reasons, I suppose, but all in all it's pretty ambiguous exactly what effect Charming Kiss has. Point is, why is WotC showcasing 4e MM with such ambiguous material? If there is clarifying material in the MM, the least WotC could do is to paraphrase it here.
Can this be right?
What possible reason could WotC have for purposefully showcasing 4e with such ambiguous material?
As a 4e fanboy, this embarrasses me. I am shamed.
OK, WotC, I forgive you. Give us more!
The succubus gets a meat shield, but so does her meat shield. If any of her allies attack the meat shield, then she loses the meat shield. So, the party can't attack the succubus, but the bad guys can't attack the meat shield. So, the meat shield is free to attack the bad guys essentially using the succubus as a shield. Or, the bad guys say screw you to the succubus, and break her charm. So, as written, it's a great power if she's alone, not so good if she has allies.
Can this be right?
Just forget the succubus for a minute.
WotC released an excerpt from the 4e MM, presumably to generate excitement about the new edition. There can be no doubt that, as written, the Charming Kiss power is ambiguous. The second paragraph states that the effect can be sustained by a once a day kissing. What effect? Interposing himself? Why is he still there? I could think of some reasons, I suppose, but all in all it's pretty ambiguous exactly what effect Charming Kiss has. Point is, why is WotC showcasing 4e MM with such ambiguous material? If there is clarifying material in the MM, the least WotC could do is to paraphrase it here.
Can this be right?
What possible reason could WotC have for purposefully showcasing 4e with such ambiguous material?
As a 4e fanboy, this embarrasses me. I am shamed.
OK, WotC, I forgive you. Give us more!
frankthedm
First Post
Charms legitimately had varying effect based on how a character had been role played.
Lets say you charmed someone guarding a door and you tell your new friend you want to pass. The guard who gives his friend breaks normally lets you past with a wink and a nod. The Samurai guarding the door asks you to go away so he does not have to kill you {the charm being WHY he did not immediately attack]
That is a recipe for arguments.
Lets say you charmed someone guarding a door and you tell your new friend you want to pass. The guard who gives his friend breaks normally lets you past with a wink and a nod. The Samurai guarding the door asks you to go away so he does not have to kill you {the charm being WHY he did not immediately attack]
That is a recipe for arguments.
DandD
First Post
Devils are all about ganging up on some poor schmock. 
A gang of really terrible bullies.
Demons are cruel psychopaths. But some demons will still be able to use team-work, like the former yugoloths, who now have been subsumed into the demon-team. I do wonder what will happen to the Ultroloth, and how it will be named. The Ultrodemon?
A gang of really terrible bullies. Demons are cruel psychopaths. But some demons will still be able to use team-work, like the former yugoloths, who now have been subsumed into the demon-team. I do wonder what will happen to the Ultroloth, and how it will be named. The Ultrodemon?
sckeener said:
Just having completed a level 20 adventure, I can say that:
A lot of stuff monsters had was just accumulated garbage that became necessary because of the nature of spells. Spell resistance negated one hit kills, ethereal jaunt was used to hit ethereal PCs, disintegrate or teleport to negate force cages, flight to negate flight, teleport to negate teleport, and all the rest like dispel magic, blind sight, true sight, energy resistances, etc.
Basically monsters had to have bloated stat blocks and random assortments of abilities just to remain competent opponents at higher levels. It didn't actually add anything to the fight.
It doesn't actually say the target is allowed to take ANY actions while under the effect of charm other than interpose himself against attackers. It's just as likely the "if the target is next to the succubus" line means "unless the succubus moves away from him" and not vice versa. As written, I would presume the character is allowed to interpose himself and not do much of anything else. I would also, however, assume he gets a save at the end of each turn, which does not appear in the write-up.
