D&D 4E 4e Monster Manual excerpt

[Stalker0]

You are very devious, my friend. I missed that option completely. As a matter of fact, a dominated foe could be forced to walk a very ugly path on its way to the succubus. Depending on the monsters with her there might not be much left to take a hit for her the following round.

Considering how the confused entry works, I"m guessing dominate allows you to take control of the character's actions. That could be very nasty.

On the other hand, I really don't think players are going to like the dm getting complete control of their character. Its one thing to give commands that they can try to subvert, it another to grab their mini and move it where you want.

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

On the other hand, I really don't think players are going to like the dm getting complete control of their character.

Control only lasts for one round, and it's not a guarantee.

Player's aren't going to like it, but it's not the kind of situation one could have with dominate monster.

 

[Gargazon]

Considering how the confused entry works, I"m guessing dominate allows you to take control of the character's actions. That could be very nasty.

On the other hand, I really don't think players are going to like the dm getting complete control of their character. Its one thing to give commands that they can try to subvert, it another to grab their mini and move it where you want.

I wouldn't see this being much of a problem, aslong as there are certain restrictions that don't cause your players to be crying out in rage everytime they're dominated.

For example, I imagine domination won't allow you to use anything other than a basic attack while controlling a character. Otherwise, you can blow a dominated character's dailies and encounters, if you were feeling evil enough, and that would probably lead to physical harm being put upon your person

 

[Mirtek]

The battle is supposed to last many rounds. Also remember that one devil is only 1/5ththe opposition.

However 18 damage is just tickling to a lvl 22 character. A lvl 1 character hit's harder. Ok, he needs his daily to do so, but he's also 21 levels below him!

It takes away a lot of awe from these supernatural beings. They're supposed to be among the most nasty threats the hells have to offer and not "He's such a sissy, he can't actually hurt us without bringing his 20 friends along. Here, watch how I strip out of all armor and giggle while he tries to hurt me"

 

[Sir Brennen]

*Other PCs would not target the succubus knowing full well the PC will take the attack.

Exactly. The main point of the Charming Kiss is the Succubus now has one enemy who can't attack her. Having them be a meatshield is just gravy. No, she'll just try and follow close enough so nobody else is willing to attack her either. That's how she controls the battlefield to a degree.

Image the setup below:

            X
X X X       X D     P2
X [COLOR=DarkOrange]S[/COLOR] X B B B X     [COLOR=Red]P1 [/COLOR] 
X X X       X D      P3
            X      P4

The Succubus stands on a platform attatched to main area by a rope Bridge. She uses Dominate to call the PC 1 past her Devil bodyguards, who cut the bridge behind him, leaving him stranded with a nympho infernal who's going to keep trying to kiss him until she succeeds. Once she does, he can stand by and watch while she uses Dominate to have the other PCs take turns attacking each other while the Devils beat on them, or he can throw himself into the lava pool below to get away from her.

As long as he's on that platform with her, there's not a lot the other PCs can do without harming him instead of or in addition to her.

Other possibilities suggest themselves, like trapping a PC in a dungeon cell or cage with her where there is an opening high above for her to escape by flying away if needed. Use some imagination, people!

I also think Charming Kiss does only what it says it does. The fact that has the Charm descriptor is for things like Racial Bonus on Defense vs. Charm, or if there is something like a Remove Charm ritual.

"Come back my daring!" says the succubus.

"No thank you," says the paladin as he runs away.

The succubus prances after the paladin. "I'll never leave your side my dearest!"

"Get away from me you hag!" pleads the poor paladin as he sees one of the NPCs* notch an arrow and fire. The paladin does his duty and bares his chest for his mistress. Thump. The paladin curses under his breath as he takes another arrow for her.

The succubus squeals with delight, "I knew you'd protect me, my knight in shining armor."

"But who'll protect me from you?" asks the paladin resigned to the succubus attached to his hip like a beautiful, but chaffing scabbard.

"Sorry honey," she says with an almost angelic smile. "That's your problem not mine."

Isn't that a scene from one of those books with Fabio on the cover?

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I am pretty sure that "Dominate" and "Charm" are both keywords in the text, since the dominate powers description doesn't give any details at all what it does. Only the tactics descriptions tells us that she apparently can command people around.
So I presume the kiss also does more then just the interposing charm thing.

With that said, I wouldn't be to surprised if the Charm doesn't forbid her charmed victim to move away from her. My reasons
1) He still has to move away from her. This might or might not provoke opportunity attacks from he Succubus allies.
2) He can't attack her at all, which limits his tactical options.
3) He can't move close to her, unless he wants to risk his own life and waste his comrades attack.
4) If he would always stay besides her, the Succubus could basically become unbeatable, unless someone can stop being charmed by her. Otherwise, every single hit against her will hit her charmed victim, until it's dead. Then, she can kiss another party member, and rinse, repeat, until all party members are dead, except the last one, who is now here trusted ally.

 

[Victim]

However 18 damage is just tickling to a lvl 22 character. A lvl 1 character hit's harder. Ok, he needs his daily to do so, but he's also 21 levels below him!

It takes away a lot of awe from these supernatural beings. They're supposed to be among the most nasty threats the hells have to offer and not "He's such a sissy, he can't actually hurt us without bringing his 20 friends along. Here, watch how I strip out of all armor and giggle while he tries to hurt me"

I think that one of the design goals for 4e was to increase defense relative to offense at higher levels. In 3.x, fairly even mixed group fights tended to leave several combatants on the floor each round. For example, in a fight against another adventuring party, our sorcerer (who had a huge Con, btw) was targeted by two enemies in the first round and dropped before he could go. Similarly, I think we took out one of them and then grappled another in our first turn.

Basically, if an individual creature does a significant percentage of an adventurer's HP per round - or vice versa - then several of those creatures coordinating their attacks will drop a character in a round. So the damage curve basically must flatter to prevent spiking from completely dominating combat.

 

[HatWearingFool]

Not enough damage?

For the folks that say this guys doesn't do enough damage I'd just like to point out that this:
1 war devil (level 22 brute)
isn't an encounter all by itself.

this is now the encounter:
1 war devil (level 22 brute)
1 ice devil (level 20 soldier)
2 bone devils (level 17 controller)
12 legion devil legionnaires (level 21 minion)

so yeah 16 guys doing damage adds up pretty fast.

And just think that 1 level 21 solo is apparently equal to those 16 other guys.

 

[Dausuul]

I wouldn't see this being much of a problem, aslong as there are certain restrictions that don't cause your players to be crying out in rage everytime they're dominated.

For example, I imagine domination won't allow you to use anything other than a basic attack while controlling a character. Otherwise, you can blow a dominated character's dailies and encounters, if you were feeling evil enough, and that would probably lead to physical harm being put upon your person

Maybe... see, I don't consider "players crying out in rage" to be a bad thing as long as it's in-character rage and doesn't happen too often. If it causes the player to get a really serious hate on for the succubus, it'll be that much more satisfying when s/he finally gets to kill her.

 

[Guild Goodknife]

However 18 damage is just tickling to a lvl 22 character. A lvl 1 character hit's harder. Ok, he needs his daily to do so, but he's also 21 levels below him!

It takes away a lot of awe from these supernatural beings. They're supposed to be among the most nasty threats the hells have to offer and not "He's such a sissy, he can't actually hurt us without bringing his 20 friends along. Here, watch how I strip out of all armor and giggle while he tries to hurt me"

If the Wardevil starts hitting the Rouge or the Wizard they're not going to last long, i'd say 6-7 rounds (remember, stretching the number of rounds in a fight was a design goal)
Don't think to hard about the level difference, if you want to make a monster a threat for the whole party the solo template is the way to go.