Moon-Lancer
First Post
Whizbang Dustyboots said:
yeah, I should have pre orderd. Whats the cheapest super shipping saver thing on amazon?
D&D 4E 4E Player's Handbook just put on some weight!!!!
- Thread starter DaveMage
- Start date
yeah, I should have pre orderd. Whats the cheapest super shipping saver thing on amazon?
Nikosandros
Golden Procrastinator
Exactly... if, for example, they include more races or more classes, they give us extra options, but the complexity remains the same.Khuxan said:
BTW, the 3e PHB is 320 page and I certainly don't consider it "a ridiculous waste of time".
Moon-Lancer
First Post
here is hoping the druid is in the phb.... 
how about you theredrobedwizard?
how about you theredrobedwizard?
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Olgar Shiverstone
Legend
I hope Amazon is right; the PHB will need 320 pages to contain all of the options I'd like to have in the PHB (especially with the additions of martial maneuvers, tieflings/eladrin (yech! ptui!), etc). Druids should be in at the beginning (and I'd like to see bards as well, though gnomes can wait.)
Jack7
First Post
I have personally never seen a system, and suspect I never will, in any field of endeavor, gaming including, which required an ongoing accumulation of ever more massive amounts of information and data in order to achieve "an effect of simplicity."
Simple simply does not equal to, or equate to, complex.
I am not saying that to be combative towards you personally, but to be logical in the general sense.
The simplicity effect is not achieved in one million words. Or one billion.
It is achieved in a few.
And if understanding cannot be simply transmitted, then it is not understanding, it is confusion. And that is I suspect very much the underlying and intended point.
Complexity keeps a relatively small community of devotees constantly humming and involved in specialized acts, like rule interpretations, mechanical development, semi-professional opinionating, linguistic analysis of possible and complex interpretations of technical terminology, and so forth and so on. But those things render professional gamers, they do not encourage market expansion, widespread enjoyment or practical value in the act of gaming. Modern so called role play gaming seeks to develop, retain, and over-commit professional gamers at all cost, and it does so through ever evolving layers of complexity, but it does not do so by making gaming more generally valuable, efficient, simple, enjoyable, or useful. And it does not do so by making games more understandable or gaming more fluid and easy to execute.
These modern gaming systems are very much like modern American Law.
You can say nothing directly and simply for fear of the fact that somebody might actually understand what you mean.
I call this "Gaming Law." When in doubt and if your game has no other real purpose, then at least assure it is complex and full of arcane rule sets. Do not look behind the curtain and eventually the Game Law will become an end unto itself, and when that happens you no longer need the curtain. The game becomes the curtain.
Gaming today (even the very act of discussing it on the part of many gamers) consists of a complex lexicon exchange of self-absorbed, navel-gazing mechanical and specialized technical terminology that dissuades innovation and simplicity of utilization, it does not encourage it. Gaming today is complex and professional, no doubt about it, but it definitely is not useful, practical, communicative, innovative, or simple.
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Snapdragyn
Explorer
Does anyone else find it amusing that the longest posts in this thread are about simplicity & brevity?
I'm just saying.
I'm just saying.
Whizbang Dustyboots
Gnometown Hero
Order $25 worth of stuff, and shipping is free, but unfast. So ordering, say, the preview books and PHB all at once (or the MM and DMG, once they get added to the system) and you won't pay for any shipping.Moon-Lancer said:
Dragonblade
Adventurer
I'm glad the page count is bigger. The PHB is the single most used book at the table, therefore I want it chock full of options. As many spells, feats, talents, maneuvers, disciplines, classes, and races they can cram in there, the better!
Give it to me!
Give it to me!
Mustrum_Ridcully
Legend
You are aware that approximately half (or more?*) of the PHB 3.0 and PHB 3.5 were devoted to the spell list? A lot of room was also devoted to class descriptions, skills and feats.Jack7 said:
The real basic rules are the Combat Chapter and a part of the Magic chapter.
Knowing all spells is pretty hard in 3.x, and not at all uncomplex. But understanding the basics is pretty simple (slots, saving throw DCs, Spell Resistance) and done in a lot less pages. You only need a 20 line paragraph on a spell if you want to cast it.
If we use the military example above: Think of it as a text about how to shoot a rifle, containing also accurate technical descriptions (including illustrations) of each currently employed NATO pistol, rifle, assault rifle, machine gun and rocket launcher, and the various ammunition employed and additional devices available for them (silencers, scopes, bayonets, magazines)... You don't need to know that the G3 is blow-back operated or the standard G36 magazines can be "clipped" together to learn how to shoot with a rifle in general. But the information about these weapons might be useful if you ever hold one of them. But then, you probably need only the information about the one you want to actually use.
*) ah, when I get home, i better look this up. I could be seriously off, but I know that a lot of pages are devoted to spells, because when I look for one, I keep flipping and flipping to get the right one, even if I am in the correct "alphabetic space" ...
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