D&D 4E 4e Psionics speculation

[Harshax]

With any luck, there won't be any psionic classes at all. Lacking that, do note that several powers with a "psychic" descriptor already exist for the warlock class - Eyebite and Curse of the Dark Dream. I'm hoping that psychic powers stay in the Arcane grouping and there is no split into a different grouping.

In 3e, there was a major mechanical difference between spellcasters and psionics. In 4th edition they have streamlined the mechanics to be the same for everyone, so at that point I have to ask - why? Is "one group manifests powers with their mind" as opposed to "one group manifesting powers via magic" enough of a difference to justify having them at all? They'd be better served adding a psionic path to warlock (like fey and infernal) than coming up with a new class altogether.

IMO, 2E probably got Psionics most right. Whether you thought the mechanics were frustrating or wonky, its arguable that the psionic suite of powers clearly differentiated them from spellcasters.

That said, there must be a finite number of At Will, Encounter, and Daily powers and justifying the creation of a new class will become more and more difficult? By finite, I mean hundreds of possible tweaks, not hundreds of thousands, and by new class I don't mean take Class foo, and replace all instances of Arcane with Divine, but truly new classes with new powers.

I sure hope so! I'm starting to think 4E might give me something I gave up on decades ago - and that is a game that didn't have a bazillion splat books. While miffed that I'll have to wait for PHBII to get most of the things I want written for me, I think we may see more 3rd party products that focus on actual adventures, and campaigns, and not just more and more classes, feats, etc. Though I'm sure many companies will try.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Psionic Leaders make a lot of sense. Hive minds, mental manipulation, psychic communion, all good things.

Psionic Controllers with charm and mind-blasty powers and precognition make a lot of sense. Very much "you are all my pawns!"-y.

Psionic Strikers have precedence with the soulknife and psychoportation powers, which was cool. Probably not necessary, though? More ranger-y territory.

Psionic Defenders have precedence with the psychic warrior and body-alteration powers. Again, probably not ncessary. More wild shape/druid-y territority.

Monks should stay the heck away from psionics. There's no good reason why they'd have to be together.

Druids and Barbarians should be in the PHBII. Druids, ideally, would be controllers with a lot of battlefield-manipulation powers (spikes, trees, chasms, earthquakes, storms, what-have-you). They could drop the wild-shapey aspects and I'd be pretty happy. I like the idea of them as being preists of the "old ways," and having a link to the fey. Barbrians, ideally, would be strikers who beat your face in.

Ardents and Divine Minds and Lurks are all sweet, but I bet the Cleric and the Rogue killed them and took their stuff (auras and augments, right?).

Wild shape?! Eh. Give druids a Polymorph ritual and call it a day.

 

[Sadrik]

I want to see a book with the samurai, ninja, monk, and shugenja or wu jen.

Power source: Asian

No, that is ridiculous. "It's Asian so it must be different", and arguments of its ilk is absolutely wrong on so many levels, its not even funny.

That said, they should most definitely have an "Oriental Adventures", along with an "Arabian Adventures" and any other number of similar source books like that. And they might even include new classes, but they should not have a new power source. Between, martial, arcane, divine, psionic, shadow, and primal. I think you can make pretty much every possible combo you want.

Also, why make a ninja class if you have an assassin, why make a samurai if you have a warlord, bushi- fighter, wujen- wizard, monk- soulknife/psychic warrior, shugenja- druid/primal sorcerer, sohei- paladin, and yakazu- rogue. You could go down the line with Arabian Adventures too. I think niche protection is very important, spreading out and making multiple classes that fill the same niche is going to make the game burst at the seams. The setting books should include new paragon paths and new setting specific powers and also give the base classes a mildly different set up for the class for instance an Asian rogue (yakazu) might have two possible methods that are different from the brute rogue and CHA rogue (whatever it was called) same class different feel.

 

[Sadrik]

Monks should stay the heck away from psionics. There's no good reason why they'd have to be together.

They should be martial or psionic, take your pick. I would define "chi" as martial, but if you want monks to jump and fly and do amazing feats of body control tricks (Dhalsim punch from street fighter) then they would obviously be psionic imho.

 

[Harshax]

No, that is ridiculous. "It's Asian so it must be different", and arguments of its ilk is absolutely wrong on so many levels, its not even funny.

I disagree. Japanese have a decidedly different approach to martial skill than say, western knights, and the 'Wu Jen' has a way different 'arcane reality' than say, a Hermetic mage. Whether you choose to run an Asian themed game with only the PH is up to you, but the archetypes are very different and deserve a 4e treatment if customers demand it.

That said, I would love to see Arabian Adventures back in print, 4e style.

As far as the 'Asian' Power Source? I'm pretty sure that was a joke.

 

[Sadrik]

I disagree. Japanese have a decidedly different approach to martial skill than say, western knights, and the 'Wu Jen' has a way different 'arcane reality' than say, a Hermetic mage. Whether you choose to run an Asian themed game with only the PH is up to you, but the archetypes are very different and deserve a 4e treatment if customers demand it.

That said, I would love to see Arabian Adventures back in print, 4e style.

As far as the 'Asian' Power Source? I'm pretty sure that was a joke.

Apparently, different enough to warrant martial/asian version, arcane/asian vestion, all the way down the line. That is silly. Besides, this is D&D and not the ancient worlds notion of martial mastery, the way martial characters have named maneuvers now, we have already stepped down that road of "asian" inspired combat. So explain, how you add more asian theme to an already asian theme? Why should we have a samurai instead of a warlord or fighter? what firm niche ground does the samurai protect that the warlord or fighter don't already offer?

 

[Harshax]

Apparently, different enough to warrant martial/asian version, arcane/asian vestion, all the way down the line. That is silly. Besides, this is D&D and not the ancient worlds notion of martial mastery, the way martial characters have named maneuvers now, we have already stepped down that road of "asian" inspired combat. So explain, how you add more asian theme to an already asian theme? Why should we have a samurai instead of a warlord or fighter? what firm niche ground does the samurai protect that the warlord or fighter don't already offer?

Personally, I see the archetypical Samurai as more of a Striker than a Defender or Leader, but that's besides the point.

This is D&D! And we've had an Oriental Adventures sourcebook for every edition of the game since the 80's. So chances are, the majority of writers, gamers, and consumers disagree with you. Whether you think it is silly or not, probably doesn't factor into the OP's request, so I don't really know how you are contributing to the discussion, other than to hijack or troll it.

I definitely prefer to get all the thematic classes in one go, and not spread across different splat books, so I'll be rooting for a 4E Oriental Adventures Sourcebook, with classes and background material, and not wuxia themed characters spread out across several books.

To bring this back on topic, I hope to see Psionics as a fully realized Power Source, so that if I want to run games featuring Psionics to the exclusion of Arcane and Divine Sources I can do so without a lot of personal writing.

 

[Szatany]

Ideally, each "regional" sourcebook (like asian, arabian, indian) would have not new classes, but tools to slightly alter existing classes to make them feel more in the theme. Wanna play oriental fighter? - you have access to 30 or so oriental-only martial exploits and a similar number of feats. Want to try african warlock? Here are unique african warlock spells based on cannibalism or whatever.
And of course each class should have an alternative name proposed for those regions. Compile a list if you will.

 

[Evilhalfling]

The ardent I really liked - and have played with success.

I never got beyond mocking up a character, in order to make someone at all effective I had to keep rearanging my basic concept - changing the domain-things till I had a character that had some attacks and some defenses with granted powers that would be helpful. By then the concept that he was so ardent about was compeltly lost.

Harshax- really? 2ed psionics? AHHH! disintigrate or teleport at 3rd level, Multiple Attribute Dependancy, being able to spend 2 slots for a + 2 to a roll, and psionic attack madness
it was different all right, but after playing Darksun a while I wished it wasn't.

I can see the rational for a psionic leader, but to me the most fitting psionic healing is either self-only or the shareing of health variety. Will a leader without healing be playable?
I suppose they can hand wave that tradition away, but I will be disappointed.

 

[Harshax]

Ideally, each "regional" sourcebook (like asian, arabian, indian) would have not new classes, but tools to slightly alter existing classes to make them feel more in the theme. Wanna play oriental fighter? - you have access to 30 or so oriental-only martial exploits and a similar number of feats. Want to try african warlock? Here are unique african warlock spells based on cannibalism or whatever.
And of course each class should have an alternative name proposed for those regions. Compile a list if you will.

Nah, I would pay for the higher page count and a complete reference. I never liked the 'Kit Idea', caused to must cross referencing.