D&D 4E [4e] Rant - Sorcerers Without Spellbooks Come From Mean DM

[Psion]

Personally I think this is a complete non issue.

You have simultaneously missed the point and pegged it.

 

[Byrons_Ghost]

spellbooks - after all, that's treasure that the party can't use (by the core rules, anyway - I'm aware of the variant in Magic of Faerun).

Are you talking about wizards, or the party in general? I've just read through the spellbook SRD rules again- it seems to me that they've got a complete system for using borrowed or captured spellbooks and transferring the spells to your own.

Or am I missing something here?

 

[Gez]

You can only prepare spells you "know" (had already penned in your own spellbook) from a borrowed spellbook.

For using spells from captured spellbooks, you have first to decipher them, and then to copy them to your own. Basically like a scroll.

Magic of Faerûn introduces the possibility to master a spellbook -- learning the codes and conventions of its writer, so that you may use it as if it was your own spellbook.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I stay by my argument. And drnuncheon has a point - by the core rules, you can't use the spellbook. You have to get scrolls. So known spells are part of the classes all around.

From the 3.5 SRD class section on Wizards...

At any time, a wizard can also add spells found in other wizards’ spellbooks to her own.

So it seems that by the core rules you *can* use the spellbook.

In fact, in the Magic Overview

Spells Copied from Another’s Spellbook or a Scroll: A wizard can also add a spell to her book whenever she encounters one on a magic scroll or in another wizard’s spellbook. No matter what the spell’s source, the wizard must first decipher the magical writing (see Arcane Magical Writings, above). Next, she must spend a day studying the spell. At the end of the day, she must make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spell’s level). A wizard who has specialized in a school of spells gains a +2 bonus on the Spellcraft check if the new spell is from her specialty school. She cannot, however, learn any spells from her prohibited schools. If the check succeeds, the wizard understands the spell and can copy it into her spellbook (see Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook, below). The process leaves a spellbook that was copied from unharmed, but a spell successfully copied from a magic scroll disappears from the parchment.

If the check fails, the wizard cannot understand or copy the spell. She cannot attempt to learn or copy that spell again until she gains another rank in Spellcraft. A spell that was being copied from a scroll does not vanish from the scroll.

In most cases, wizards charge a fee for the privilege of copying spells from their spellbooks. This fee is usually equal to the spell’s level x50 gp.

Thus, enemy spell books are vital elements of treasure for wizards.

Cheers

 

[Korgan26]

Quote By Psion
You have simultaneously missed the point and pegged it.
___________________________________________________________________

Guildenstern: “A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself.”
Rosencrantz: “Or just as mad.”
Guildenstern: “Or just as mad.”
Rosencrantz: “And he does both.”
Guildenstern: “So there you are.”
Rosencrantz: “Stark raving sane

 

[Tsyr]

My problem with the rant being parodied here and a number of other of SKR's rants and views is that I'm starting to see two fundamental points we just will never see eye to eye on.

(these are as near as I can tell)

1) Anything that requires a judgement call from the DM is bad

and

2) Any rule that is complicated is bad

For example, on 1. I'm perfectly capable of judging when I can throw disolving weapons at my players and how often. I don't need you to tell me the things don't exist now to protect me. I'm also perfectly capable of, for example from another of his rants, saying something like "Sorry, the "Cone of Cold" spell futzed up your infravision, you cant see very well". Heck, such tactics were an accepted part of my games back in 2E... "Blind the elf! Blind the elf!" being a common call in battles in dark rooms. SKR would probably then say that there are no rules for that, but there aren't rules for a lot of things in DnD... that doesn't mean that it cant happen. For example, there are no rules for a weapon being rusted in its sheath and taking time/strength to get out, but I had that in a game last week. If you tried to include a rule for every potential possibility I would have a bookcase of rules, and I could still find rules that it wouldn't cover.

With 2, his views on Called Shots and Weapon Speeds and mine differ greatly. We both agree (basicly) that the rules that would have to be put in to allow them would complicate the game to some extent, however, I feel that it would be worth it, at least as an optional rule. He does not. *shrug*

 

[drnuncheon]

So it seems that by the core rules you *can* use the spellbook.

Only if it's got spells that are in your spellbook. Otherwise you have to copy the spells into your book - aka spend just as much money and time to do the copying as you would form any other source.

The books may be an excuse to get a particular spell, but there are plenty of others.

J

 

[Wicht]

Its kind of funny watching two seperate threads going on here at the same time.

 

[Chacal]

Even if it's not the point, here's an easy way to add a value to a naked dead sorcerer (Hey ! stop thinking this ! Immediately ! ).

Just say sorcerer blood is an ingredient that's worth a certain amount of xp for crafting magic items or casting spells.

Just put some limitations on it :
- regenerating blood mess with the ability and cause nasty deformations of the object/spell
- At least half of the sorcerer blood is needed, it's not a question of size


With this, I can see the PC wizard telling the barbarian to drop his axe and take a hammer to kill the bad npc sorcerer. He also might hesitate before desintegrating or polymorphing the NPC


Chacal

 

[WizarDru]

With this, I can see the PC wizard telling the barbarian to drop his axe and take a hammer to kill the bad npc sorcerer. He also might hesitate before desintegrating or polymorphing the NPC

With this, I can see PC sorcerors being a thing of the past, as they'd be hunted down and killed by powerful wizards and clerics for being, essentially, an inexpensive material component. Yikes.