D&D 4E 4E respawning?

[RigaMortus2]

Is it the norm that epic lvl characters are just assumed to die a lot and have magic ways to basically "respawn" or come back to life? The wording of Arcane Spirit seems like this is the norm for higher level play. Isn't this exactly what we DON'T want to copy from MMOs?

Arcane Spirit (24th level): Once per day, when you die, you can detach your spirit from your body. In arcane spirit form, you heal to maximum hit points and gain the insubstantial and phasing qualities. You can cast encounter spells and at-will spells while in arcane spirit form, but you can’t cast daily spells, activate magic items, or perform rituals. If you die in arcane spirit form, you’re dead.

At the end of the encounter, after a short rest, your arcane spirit rejoins your body, if your body is still present. Your current hit point total is unchanged, but you no longer experience the other benefits and drawbacks of being in arcane spirit form.

If your body is missing, you will need other magic to return to life, but can continue adventuring in arcane spirit form if you like.

 

[Guild Goodknife]

In our highlevel game, player characters died. And they died alot. Just think of Arcane Spirit as some sort of Contingency - it doesnt come up every other encounter, but when it does it makes spellcasters harder to kill.

 

[Morrus]

“If you strike me down I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.”

 

[Sir_Darien]

From the few playtest articles at epic levels that I've been able to find, the people do seem to indicate that death is a more common occurance at those levels. However the party is able to deal with these events on the fly in such a way that it doesn't "seem like death". An example is the archmage ability you posted.

I thought about this as weird too, then I realized I was much more comfortable with it if I thought of it as: "Once per day, if you would otherwise die...do x" Epic heros on the verge of death, but instead of dying they get a massive second wind and go apes**t on whatever it is they are fighting. Sounds a lot cooler than "When you die...do x," no?

 

[Sojorn]

“If you strike me down I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.”

Except your body doesn't vanish.

In fact, you have to lay there on the ground for a few rounds before your spirit decides the ride has well and truly stopped and it's time to get off.

Blue jedi glowy was exactly what I thought of first though.

 

[mlund]

Hm ... considering that once you have a 9th level Cleric or Druid in your party in 3.X you've got Raise Dead and Reincarnate, and that by 17th level you have Resurrection, True Resurrection, Clone, Soul Jar, and the like "characters are just assumed to die a lot and have magic ways to basically "respawn" or come back to life" in 3rd Edition D&D already - so I don't see your point at all.

Considering Epic Destinies end in Immortality and that in Epic Literature traveling back from the world of the dead is a staple of the Heroic Journey I really don't see the problem here.

If you personally don't like that style of play, don't play at Epic level. You can always rewrite the fluff involved in the abilities to retain play balance but fix the flavor, if that's what's bothering you. Both of these are far more productive than just going online and starting a thread about how the decades-old revolving door afterlife of D&D is "too much like an MMO."

- Marty Lund

 

[Wormwood]

Isn't this exactly what we DON'T want to copy from MMOs?

We?

Nope. I like how the 3 tier model handles death.

 

[malraux]

Is it the norm that epic lvl characters are just assumed to die a lot and have magic ways to basically "respawn" or come back to life? The wording of Arcane Spirit seems like this is the norm for higher level play. Isn't this exactly what we DON'T want to copy from MMOs?

I think all epic classes get something like this. In effect, this is a way to add HP without adding HP. It certainly doesn't make characters unkillable, just gives a margin of error. And certainly I think that at some point in the game, running out of HP shouldn't be a show stopper.

 

[Korgoth]

It doesn't sound like an MMO. In an MMO, you always come back from death no matter what, even at 1st level.

In 4E, it seems that you go from Hero --> Superhero --> Mythological Hero. And mythological heroes do come back from the dead and other things like that... at that point they're pretty much on a first name basis with the cosmic forces of nature and so get to break the rules somewhat (think of high school: if you are a supernerd honor student you can walk around at all times without a hall pass, wear long hair and get mouthy with the authorities, whereas slackers would be crushed for any one of those offenses). The Epic character has essentially earned the right to break the rules.

I think one challenge will be for DMs to make it believeable. Surely you don't get to tell the Grim Reaper to "stick it" on a daily basis and casually use Time Stop to make it to the Post Office before it closes simply because you've been grinding "Boartusk Orcs" for 21 levels. I feel strongly that there's going to have to be some in-campaign justification for the attainment of Epic-ness.

 

[parcival42]

think of high school: if you are a supernerd honor student you can walk around at all times without a hall pass, wear long hair and get mouthy with the authorities, whereas slackers would be crushed for any one of those offenses.

I wish I had gone to high school in Barbaria!